Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    Liz69
    Backdated Ground Rent
    • #1
    • 21st Jan 10, 5:38 PM
    Backdated Ground Rent 21st Jan 10 at 5:38 PM
    Hello.

    15 years ago I bought my property as leasehold. My solicitor was unable to find out who I needed to pay the ground rent to.

    This week I have received notice from Morgoed Estates (who do exist on Companies House) requesting this years rent and six years backdated rent. I do not mind paying this if it is genuine, but I assume everybody is trying it on! Does anybody know if this company, who say they purchased the portfolio of rents in 2002 from the previous owner, can do this.

    Thank you. Liz
Page 2
  • curlygirl1971
    No I didn't. Feel a bit sick now.

    But in all honesty when I got the letter I just thought well it's all there in writing - pay 40 now and not bother with annual rent.
    • Fire Fox
    • By Fire Fox 13th Feb 10, 1:08 AM
    • 24,851 Posts
    • 28,923 Thanks
    Fire Fox
    Take your piece of paper to a solicitor, you need to know what it is!
    Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️ Trainee Rosie the Riveter.
  • clutton
    ""Did you not get legal advice on this transaction at all?? I am struggling to believe you have purchased the freehold for forty quid without any legal involvement if so."


    do what FF says immediately ....... you have no idea what you have signed.....

    sighs.....
  • curlygirl1971
    Ok.

    Just to be clear though - I haven't signed anything. I paid a fee and morgoed estates, the rent charge owners sent me a deed of release of rent charges that they have signed
  • clutton
    paying a fee in exchange for something IS a contract in law.... whether you have signed something or not

    it all may be ok - but untill a solicitor looks at it you wont know...

    normally groundrents cost thousands of pounds to buy..........
    • Fire Fox
    • By Fire Fox 13th Feb 10, 11:24 AM
    • 24,851 Posts
    • 28,923 Thanks
    Fire Fox
    40 wouldn't even cover their admin costs, never mind their legal costs in drawing up a deed. Letting agents charge more than that for referencing!
    Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️ Trainee Rosie the Riveter.
  • curlygirl1971
    Redemption of Rentcharges

    Article:Real Estate News & Developments, April 2009
    What are Rentcharges?

    Rentcharges are periodical payments where there is no relationship of landlord and tenant. Rentcharges are therefore payable by freehold proprietors to rentcharge owners. The Rentcharges Act 1977 has limited rentcharges to a large extent by preventing the creation of 'new' rentcharges (there are certain exceptions to this rule). Existing rentcharges will be extinguished on either 21 July 2037 or sixty years from the date the rentcharge first became payable, whichever is later.

    Why bother getting rid of them then?
    Despite most rentcharges being low value, there are two main reasons why people choose to get rid of them:

    1) To tidy up a property's title to make it more attractive to prospective purchasers.
    2) Rentcharge owners can exercise remedies if a rentcharge remains unpaid. They can sue for the money owed, or they can enter the property to take items up to the value of the money owed. Alternatively, rentcharge owners can take possession of the property and take any income generated from it until the debt is paid. Even if the rentcharge itself is not high value, the consequences of not paying the rentcharge can be severe.

    How are rentcharges extinguished?
    There are two methods to get rid of rentcharges:

    1) Application to Government Office for the North West
    The Government Office for the North West ("GONW") has national responsibility for dealing with applications to extinguish rentcharges.

    Certain details about the rentcharge owner and a copy of the rentcharge deed need to be supplied with the application.

    In order to extinguish the rentcharge the applicant has to pay a redemption sum to the rentcharge owner. On average, this is seventeen times the amount of the annual rentcharge.

    If the rentcharge owner cannot be found, the rentcharge can still be redeemed but instead of paying the money to the owner it is paid in to court.

    A redemption certificate is issued by the GONW and an application can then be made to the Land Registry to remove all references to the rentcharge from the register.

    2) Private Redemption by Deed of Release
    This is a private agreement between the rentcharge owner and the proprietor of the land. A deed is executed and a redemption sum paid. The redemption value is a matter to be agreed between the parties. Usually this will be the number of years remaining multiplied by the annual rentcharge, although a discount for early redemption can sometimes be agreed.

    An application can then be made to the Land Registry to register the Deed of Release and remove the rentcharge from the register.

    I found the above on the website of a law firm. It appears I've done the 2nd (Private Redemption by Deed of Release)

    With regard to the amount I have been charged:-

    Morgoed Estates have charged me 40.50

    As per no. 1 above: If I had made an application to the Government office then 17 x 2.25 = 38.25
    As per no. 2 above: To the year 2037 there are 27 years remaining. 27 x Rentcharge of 2.25 = 60.75
    , less a discount for early redemption?

    So I don't think that 40.50 is so unrealistic

    Many thanks for everyone's comments - I shall get the 'Deed of Release of Rentcharge' checked. And yes I do appreciate that it would have been better to do so before I started this process, but I didn't and I'm sure I'm not the first or the last in that respect. Everyone makes errors of judgement at certain times - It's not often that I do but I've possibly made one and obviously I hope it doesn't come back to bite me on the butt.
  • curlygirl1971
    Apologies to Liz69 for unwittingly hijacking her thread
    • Richard Webster
    • By Richard Webster 13th Feb 10, 12:56 PM
    • 7,483 Posts
    • 7,203 Thanks
    Richard Webster
    Did you not get legal advice on this transaction at all?? I am struggling to believe you have purchased the freehold for forty quid without any legal involvement if so.
    She didn't. See curlygirl's long recent post.

    This wasn't a long leasehold property with a ground rent - it was a freehold property subject to a rentcharge and these are redemable using the process set out in her post - different thing altogether although it might appear the same. Hence my initial surprise at the low figure quoted - they didn't have any choice because the amount is fixed by law.
    RICHARD WEBSTER

    As a retired conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful assuming any properties concerned are in England/Wales but I accept no liability for it.
  • curlygirl1971
    Richard

    Hope you don't mind me asking you direct, but do I need to get the Deed of Release checked?

    Thanks in advance of any response
    C
    • Richard Webster
    • By Richard Webster 13th Feb 10, 2:35 PM
    • 7,483 Posts
    • 7,203 Thanks
    Richard Webster
    Would be best to do so =- go back to the solicitor you bought through.
    RICHARD WEBSTER

    As a retired conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful assuming any properties concerned are in England/Wales but I accept no liability for it.
  • howy efc
    ground rent
    My ground rent is 2.50p.a., I paid 30 in 1997,this was to buy out any future rent I was told.I have heard nothing for 13 years and now I have just received a bill for 668 from Morgoed Estates, this is for ground rent backdated to 2002.The amount is that much because of costs they told me.
    What can I do next. any suggestions?
    • binbags
    • By binbags 22nd Mar 11, 4:08 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    binbags
    Morgoed Estates
    Hi All

    I like you have been contacted by the above company a few days ago, asking for the ground rent for 2011. A sum of 1.00.

    Back in late 2009 we sent them a cheque for 20.00. This was to pay for the 2 years before 2009 and the next 18 years. But yet again they have sent an invoice demand for 1.00 for this year, when we should have been paid up until 2027.

    I have sent then copies of the returned official stamped letter that we sent to them in 2009, showing that we have sent them a cheque for 20.00.

    I have have sent a couple emails in the last few days asking them to please explain themselves and respond to my emails, the first email contained copies of the posting and the returned stamped letter. All to no avail.

    Do you have any further advise for us??

    Maybe Morgoed Estates would like to explain themselves on this web site, as they appear to be a contributor.
  • Nagapriya
    Morgoed Estates and ground rent
    Dear MSE

    I have just received a demand from Morgoed Estates for ground rent of 10.50 plus and admin charge of 100.00 for the cost of them sending me a letter to claim payment. I have previously never heard of Morgoed Estates or had any request for ground rent.

    Upon further inquiry, I have discovered that they are claiming 7 years back groundrent (although they don't state this in their letter). My question is: do I have to pay them all the back groundrent even if I have only owned my property for 1 year (the annual ground rent is 1.50). In addition, am I obliged to pay the 100 additional fee? The company is threatening to take legal action against me, which, they say, could include taking possession of my house if I don't pay them.

    Anyone offer any help on this?
    Thanks
    Nagapriya
    • angel_islington
    • By angel_islington 4th May 11, 10:37 PM
    • 255 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    angel_islington
    Dear MSE

    I have just received a demand from Morgoed Estates for ground rent of 10.50 plus and admin charge of 100.00 for the cost of them sending me a letter to claim payment. I have previously never heard of Morgoed Estates or had any request for ground rent.

    Upon further inquiry, I have discovered that they are claiming 7 years back groundrent (although they don't state this in their letter). My question is: do I have to pay them all the back groundrent even if I have only owned my property for 1 year (the annual ground rent is 1.50). In addition, am I obliged to pay the 100 additional fee? The company is threatening to take legal action against me, which, they say, could include taking possession of my house if I don't pay them.

    Anyone offer any help on this?
    Thanks
    Nagapriya
    Originally posted by Nagapriya
    Check the terms and conditions of your lease. If there is no provision for administration charges for Ground Rent (ours for example has none) then they cannot charge you the 100 fee. End of story. If it does allow admin charges then they have to be reasonable. I think they would struggle to prove 100 to send a letter is reasonable.

    As I say, check the terms and conditions of your lease and also read Section 166 of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002. Or go to lease-advise.org.

    I'm sure someone will also recommend that you check they are actually the landlord as well.

    Don't worry too much about the legal action stuff, the vast majority of the time it's just fluff. It's rare that they are actually in a position to do this.
  • CANNYMAZ
    morgoed estates
    Hi, I have also received a demand for payment of ground rent for 11.74 + 100 costs from morgoed estates. Having had no previous contact from this company I decided to send the ground rent of 11.74 to them but not the 100 costs. (By the way they only accept payment by cheque & postal order no paying by card over the phone)
    As I no longer have a cheque book I had to purchase postal orders. This morning a recieved a copy of a letter from the company that holds my deeds in there deedsafe to say that morgoed estates had tried to put a charge on the mortgage for the full amount of 111.74, they couldn't do that because there is no mortgage. I phoned morgoes estates today who say they will be returning my postal order as it wasn't for the full amount and that they will be going to the next level for payment which according t there letter is repossesion of the house. They suggested I contact a solicitor. I only work part-time and my husband hasn't any work at the moment as he is self employed. I am really scared as my home is the only thing I own of any value. i can't afford a solicitor and don't no where to go from here. I sure when the next letter comes it will include more costs and really don't no where I will get the money from. Can any one offer any advice as to where to go from here.
    Last edited by CANNYMAZ; 06-05-2011 at 3:18 PM. Reason: They also say we paid in 2004 but we have had no contact since though they say they have sent letters.
    • angel_islington
    • By angel_islington 16th May 11, 2:32 PM
    • 255 Posts
    • 247 Thanks
    angel_islington
    Hi, I have also received a demand for payment of ground rent for 11.74 + 100 costs from morgoed estates. Having had no previous contact from this company I decided to send the ground rent of 11.74 to them but not the 100 costs. (By the way they only accept payment by cheque & postal order no paying by card over the phone)
    As I no longer have a cheque book I had to purchase postal orders. This morning a recieved a copy of a letter from the company that holds my deeds in there deedsafe to say that morgoed estates had tried to put a charge on the mortgage for the full amount of 111.74, they couldn't do that because there is no mortgage. I phoned morgoes estates today who say they will be returning my postal order as it wasn't for the full amount and that they will be going to the next level for payment which according t there letter is repossesion of the house. They suggested I contact a solicitor. I only work part-time and my husband hasn't any work at the moment as he is self employed. I am really scared as my home is the only thing I own of any value. i can't afford a solicitor and don't no where to go from here. I sure when the next letter comes it will include more costs and really don't no where I will get the money from. Can any one offer any advice as to where to go from here.
    Originally posted by CANNYMAZ
    If you've not had any previous dealings with this company why are you sending them any money at all? Have they informed you that they have purchased the freehold for your building? Who have you been paying ground rent to previously?

    Also, if you have had no official demands for ground rent (as per the commonhold and leasehold reform act 2002) then you are not liable to pay. Check that you've not had this.

    The charges are unlikely to be enforcable so don't get too wound up about them, and repossession is so far down the chain at the moment it's not even a small dot on the horizon.

    Your mortgage company cannot put any additional amounts onto your mortgage without your consent. A lot of DCA's will try to get you to sign a document to say you allow it but without it, it will not happen. Contact your mortgage company and tell them you don't authorise this.

    DCA's work on fear and lies. They will literally tell you anything to get you to pay up. And more often than not, it's money that you have no obligation to pay anyway. You don't need a solicitor at this point but I would advise that you talk to the leasehold advisory service on 020 7383 9800. They will be able to advise you further.

    Oh and don't bother phoning them! It's a complete waste of time. Only deal with them in writing and only after you've spoken to the LAS.
  • peter_m14
    If you have a rentcharge or chief rent on a freehold property then you can apply to the National Rentcharges Unit (part of the Department for Communities and Local Government) to have it redeemed under the Rentcharges Act 1977. They can be contacted on rentcharges@communities.gsi.gov.uk
    • rossylass
    • By rossylass 24th Feb 12, 10:35 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    rossylass
    Hello
    I have been dealing with Morgoed under another name for many years. They were simply JH Roberts & Thain, who are based in Craven Arms, Shropshire. I pay ground rent of 1.48 per year and have always paid on the nail without problems. This year (after sending my demand to the wrong address), they are demanding an extra 10.00 listed as "outstanding charges". This, they say, is a "second demand" as I have overlooked the first application. They have given me notice of intended proceedings and have added the 10.00 which is an administration charge. The letter is intimidating. I have emailed them to ask them to clarify the matter, but they have not replied. I plan to go to Shropshire Consumer Services, but apart from that does anyone have any suggestions?
  • WorriedByMorgoed
    Morgoed Estates
    I have had problems with these people for several years.
    They own the freehold of my house, but, there is an intermediate landord between us.
    However, they demand rent from me, but can't/won't confirm/prove that they act for my immediate landlord- so I told them to leave me alone.
    Their response '
    I appreciate your comments about the head and under leases, but I must advise you that an underlessee is not immune to action from a freeholder where there is non-payment of rent. If you would like to say when you last paid the rent under your underlease to the head lessee, we will look at recovery in that direction, but, as I said above, the liability may revert to you in the event of non-payment.'
    So they say, that unless I can prove I'm paying my landlord I must pay them- surely he who asserts a right should prove it?

    Like many here report, they add charges. They want 400 for the lease, i.e. 100 x annual rent, I bet they didn't pay anywhere near that.
    I checked with Companies House and they keep filing dormant accounts - so I sent them evidence of their invoices and pointed them at their website. Morgoed say they aren't trading, so how can they take you to court if they aren't?

    In the early days I did pay to shut them up- how do I stand with demanding my money back?
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

599Posts Today

5,535Users online

Martin's Twitter
  • RT @MartinSLewis: I sued Facebook for defamation over scam ads & settled in return for 2 things that LAUNCH TODAY -1on1 scam help at new C?

  • Bizzare German twitter mash article has called me "MARTIN LEWIS, der Geldsparexperte," Any german speakers out the? https://t.co/1tXEzCe4Y3

  • Have you ever been scammed? If so did you keep it quiet? If not would you keep it quiet or tell people? Please vot? https://t.co/68bkmbT9gc

  • Follow Martin