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    • aris
    • By aris 22nd Jul 08, 1:06 PM
    • 300 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    aris
    • #2
    • 22nd Jul 08, 1:06 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Jul 08, 1:06 PM
    You have to wonder if this sort of "advertising" fits in with the BBC's charter.
    • austin
    • By austin 22nd Jul 08, 1:43 PM
    • 565 Posts
    • 1,027 Thanks
    austin
    • #3
    • 22nd Jul 08, 1:43 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd Jul 08, 1:43 PM
    You can liken it to shows like the X Factor...a large number of people turn up without the slightest intention of getting through to the next round - they do it for the publicity of their 'act'. They know fine well they will be getting bookings all over the country and may even be invited on to the X Factor tour!

    Britain's Got Talent is another major culprit!
  • peterwaine
    • #4
    • 22nd Jul 08, 2:03 PM
    Those musical adverts are the worst
    • #4
    • 22nd Jul 08, 2:03 PM
    13 (I think) weeks for Oliver/Sound of Music, every week for 1+ hour.
  • hermcp
    • #5
    • 22nd Jul 08, 2:18 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Jul 08, 2:18 PM
    I pitched on Dragons Den a couple of series ago. I was equally driven by publicity for the business as for getting an investment. Speaking to other entrepreneurs over two days while I was waiting to pitch, there were many others who were there purely for publicity. I know someone who went on the first series, and says he gets flurries of enquiries from specific countries abroad whenever it is shown on foreign TV (the BBC sells it around the world).

    As Martin points out, in many cases, 10 minutes of primetime TV exposure is more valuable than the amount people are asking for. This is, of course, assuming your business/idea doesn't get pulled to bits...!
  • RabbitMad
    • #6
    • 23rd Jul 08, 5:58 AM
    • #6
    • 23rd Jul 08, 5:58 AM
    Being a big fan since it started, I have noticed more and more those in search of publicity, but my thoughts on this are:-
    1. There is no guarantee of more than being included in a montage of clips
    2. You have to be interesting / watchable to get your 15 mins
    3. The deals that get offered have already priced the publicity into them (i.e. real investers without the TV element would generally get offered the money for a smaller stake - I think I read this from the American dragon who left after the 2nd or 3rd series)

    I'm still waiting for my eggtastic egg cooker to be available to buy.
    • JasonLVC
    • By JasonLVC 23rd Jul 08, 7:29 AM
    • 15,818 Posts
    • 42,492 Thanks
    JasonLVC
    • #7
    • 23rd Jul 08, 7:29 AM
    • #7
    • 23rd Jul 08, 7:29 AM
    All popular shows, for some reason, jump the shark and sell out.

    The hamfatter thing on Dragon's Den was just appalling. That is NOT a business or investment opportunity. It was just blatant advertising to launch a new band. I'm sure either a producer or manager on the show or one of Peter Jone's 'mates of a mate' has their son in that band and that is the only reason why this got any airtime....plus the whole posh Cambridge graduate/rich daddy grunge thing is well covered by Coldplay already.

    There have been investments opportunties on this show where the Dragons have said "I'm not geting enough return on my investment" - even though the figures stacked up. Here, we have a band (where even EMI can't make a profit out of bands) asking for 75k on the basis their last album sold 500 copies!. The maths just don't add up and yet the Dragons were all fighting over them?. Plus, anyone would think their concept was original but Radiohead have already done the free album/breaking away from record label already as have many other top selling bands so its not even groundbreaking.

    I'll still watch the show as it remains fun, but that episode was just insulting our intelligence, which is a shame as the show purports to be for intelligent people and yet have pulled a classic Big Brother trick of 'pretending' that these people are all randomly selected when the truth is the opposite.
    Anger ruins joy, it steals the goodness of my mind. Forces me to say terrible things. Overcoming anger brings peace of mind, a mind without regret. If I overcome anger, I will be delightful and loved by everyone.
    • MSE Martin
    • By MSE Martin 23rd Jul 08, 8:11 AM
    • 8,115 Posts
    • 42,285 Thanks
    MSE Martin
    • #8
    • 23rd Jul 08, 8:11 AM
    • #8
    • 23rd Jul 08, 8:11 AM
    "All popular shows, for some reason, jump the shark and sell out."

    This did make me smile . I'm not sure they jumped the shark with Hamfatter, now if Peter Jones had said "I'll invest as long as I can become lead singer" that would've been jumping the shark.

    Im not sure they're selling out either.. ultimately its a TV programme and its a world I know well. To stay on air its about morphing, finessing and changing to provide a continuing interesting watch.

    Dragons Den is a factual entertainment not factual programme and fulfills its remit. If it pretended this was the real world of venture capital and how it worked that would be inappropriate, but for me they dont do it
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.

    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.

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  • Speeding Fines
    • #9
    • 23rd Jul 08, 9:52 AM
    • #9
    • 23rd Jul 08, 9:52 AM
    every time i eat at a restaurant I bemoan the fact that stable table didn't make it.

    The BBC could easily solve the problem by vetting the 'contestants' more thoroughly before hand to weed out the publicists
    • MSE Martin
    • By MSE Martin 23rd Jul 08, 10:31 AM
    • 8,115 Posts
    • 42,285 Thanks
    MSE Martin
    every time i eat at a restaurant I bemoan the fact that stable table didn't make it.

    The BBC could easily solve the problem by vetting the 'contestants' more thoroughly before hand to weed out the publicists
    Originally posted by Speeding Fines
    But would you invest in a company where the bosses weren't interested in publicity for their product?
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.

    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.

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    • Esqulax
    • By Esqulax 23rd Jul 08, 11:23 AM
    • 191 Posts
    • 204 Thanks
    Esqulax
    To the OP:
    Yes.
    Look at Levi Roots.
    He thought he sell 50k bottles of reggea reggea sauch in the 1st year.
    He sold 150k in the 1st week, AND has a subway promotion.
    I have to admit, whenever me and my mates have a BBQ, we go through at least 2 or 3 bottles.

    I do think that they take the mick a little bit though, putting on people who they KNOW have no chance.. like that fitted duvet sheet with a line down the middle, so you know whos hogging the bed... i was confused at that!

    I wonder though, if someone had a good product on dragons den, but was snuffed for various reasons (e.g. the tattoo removal treatment), would that have an effect on other non-dragon investors.. like "Woah, those guys a mega MEGa rich and diddnt invest... why should i?"
    So.. could DD be responsible for BAD press?
    • superscaper
    • By superscaper 23rd Jul 08, 11:29 AM
    • 12,625 Posts
    • 8,800 Thanks
    superscaper
    I wonder though, if someone had a good product on dragons den, but was snuffed for various reasons (e.g. the tattoo removal treatment), would that have an effect on other non-dragon investors.. like "Woah, those guys a mega MEGa rich and diddnt invest... why should i?"
    So.. could DD be responsible for BAD press?
    Originally posted by Esqulax
    I suppose it could work like that. It's all pretty much edited in a certain way so the contestants are represented in the way the producers want the presented. A company I consulted for were filmed in front of the dragons for over two hours. TV time was about 10-15 minutes. That kind of difference you can edit it into pretty much any style and slant you want.
    "She is quite the oddball. Did you notice how she didn't even get excited when she saw this original ZX-81?"
    Moss
    • Beate
    • By Beate 23rd Jul 08, 11:58 AM
    • 3,521 Posts
    • 4,198 Thanks
    Beate
    Levi Roots is an exception, not the norm. He hadn't got a clue about his figures but his charisma somehow won the dragons over and I am sure they made big money out of him - something which is not guaranteed with just bringing a new sauce out, however original it might be.

    Hamfatter is an investment like any other - you get a cut of the royalties and album sales so you want the band to do well. Their mere appearance on the show and giving them enough screen time will help already. Advertising and making them known is the driving force to a band's success - after all, everyone has different musical taste so the key is to reach out to as many people as possible.
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    • JasonLVC
    • By JasonLVC 23rd Jul 08, 5:31 PM
    • 15,818 Posts
    • 42,492 Thanks
    JasonLVC
    [quote=MSE Martin;12724471
    This did make me smile . I'm not sure they jumped the shark with Hamfatter, now if Peter Jones had said "I'll invest as long as I can become lead singer" that would've been jumping the shark.
    [/quote]

    Mark my words, the "Attention Junkie Jones" will be in their video or appear as a microdot on their album sleevework or something, he'll not be able to pass this opportunity by I'm sure .

    But fair point, it IS entertaining and I'll still be watching.
    Last edited by JasonLVC; 23-07-2008 at 5:56 PM.
    Anger ruins joy, it steals the goodness of my mind. Forces me to say terrible things. Overcoming anger brings peace of mind, a mind without regret. If I overcome anger, I will be delightful and loved by everyone.
    • aris
    • By aris 23rd Jul 08, 8:06 PM
    • 300 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    aris
    With regard to Levi Roots - I read an article on this. Peter Jones invested and called up his mate Justin King - MD of Sainsburys - and made a killing off the back of the publicity they got for free from Dragons Den (actually worse, I helped pay for it with my license fee). I somehow doubt the product would have sold at all if it were not for Dragons Den.

    I should write to the BBC to find out how I can invest in a company which gets such good free advertising.
  • Sally87
    So.. could DD be responsible for BAD press?
    Originally posted by Esqulax
    Also, when they take what at first glance looks like a good product (that you might easily impulse-buy) and point out all the bad points; and I know I've certainly been put off the thought of buying some things if they did appear in the shops, just by hearing the difference between the manufacturing price and the sale price!
    • superscaper
    • By superscaper 23rd Jul 08, 9:32 PM
    • 12,625 Posts
    • 8,800 Thanks
    superscaper
    just by hearing the difference between the manufacturing price and the sale price!
    Originally posted by Sally87
    Don't think that a large difference in manufacturing and retail price means there's a huge profit (certainly not for the manufacturer/owner/inventor). From the "inside" I can say that it's not unusual for there to be a 75% difference but that 75% is purely what the retailer adds on (how profitable they are is their business but you're not factoring in distribution and overhead costs probably). None of that 75% "comes" back to the manufacturer. In fact the manufacturer's profit margins may be very small. In the case of the company I consulted for they did sell direct as well but those sales are so low volume (even with offering unique, extra and bespoke additions) that it's not that profitable. All the profit comes from large orders from the retailers. If you think these costings are unique to items featured on Dragon's Den then think again. It's standard practice. Sure some make a lot of profit but then others go out of business and in many cases its out of the manufacturers' hands because they're already cutting their profit margins to a minimum. (Especially if you want things made in the UK, now THAT'S a large difference compared to somewhere like China, pence instead of pounds per item made).
    "She is quite the oddball. Did you notice how she didn't even get excited when she saw this original ZX-81?"
    Moss
  • RabbitMad
    Not a big thing but for somebody supposedly good with numbers Martin has slightly exagerated the viewing audience of DD.

    Monday's show got 3.4 million not 6 million (and I doubt GMTV gets the 6 million he quoted)
    • jezebel
    • By jezebel 25th Jul 08, 4:42 PM
    • 258 Posts
    • 165 Thanks
    jezebel
    Am I the only one thinking there is a great spin-off idea in Martin's Blog - I'd love to watch Fluffy Bunnies' Den!
    Target date for buying a house - 2010 Achieved April 2009
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    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 25th Jul 08, 5:38 PM
    • 17,398 Posts
    • 13,549 Thanks
    hollydays
    I just read duncan bannatynes biography.He said that only about one of the deals shown on dd actually came to fruition.Often due to technicalities.
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