Thermal honeycomb blind conundrum!

Coastalwatch · 27 October 2019 at 1:09PM

As our double glazed windows lose around 2kW of energy per day I'm rather taken with fitting Thermal honeycomb blinds as they appear to offer an insulative benefit over the existing items. I appreciate we shall only save a portion of this figure but I've purchased four initially to cover those windows that are north facing. Fitted in isolation it would seem that gaps down either side of the blind and window recess allow air to circulate between the blind and glass so reducing their effectiveness.

Seeing how in our caravan the blinds run in tracks(U shaped moulding) on either side which must help to alleviate those losses then I'd like to incorporate the idea when fitting those I've purchased. I might place a track along the lower edge as well, belt and braces perhaps but why not!

I've sourced an ideal sized moulding(30 x 30 x 1.5mm) online and am comfortable with the cost/metre, however, their minimum order is 75metres and I only require approx 25! Unfortunately they have no other outlet and I can find no other source for this particular size, so I'm a bit stuck at present.
In the mean time I just wondered if anyone else had already taken this route and where they may have sourced their mouldings from?
Any experiences of fitting thermal blinds and their subsequent effectiveness, or not, would be most welcome.

Even better if you've already taken the path I have in mind.:)

joefizz · 27 October 2019 at 3:01PM

Only have 3 north facing windows (main bedroom, bathroom, kitchen) so only put the honeycomb blind on the bathroom window.
I did think about tracks but thought better of it on the bathroom due to possible mould/condensation issues, there is a 0.5cm gap on either side but after 3 years I havent felt the need to retro fit the track although ymmv in other rooms.

I do think it has made a difference and in fact just pulled it down to its pre winter setting this morning. Im lazy and have it up in summer, half down about now and for Dec/Jan have it down and dont open it again - again bathroom window so not much call to open close with daylight bathroom bulbs. (have auto battery powered non daylight bulb for night use - sad I know)

I didnt bother with the large main bedroom windows because Id already had both thermal liners and thermal curtains and used a pull down blackout blind instead. I did an experiment last winter with that stick on plastic film you can use as secondary double glazing as its a rather large window (3m wide) and it cut down the noise slightly which was its purpose. The double layer of thermal curtains really does make a difference and again Im lazy and over winter they dont get opened but even that sometimes gives mould issues.

One place I thought the rails would work is gluing them to the rear door to stop them rattling when opening/closing (double glass panel upvc double glazed) and having that as a blind whilst still allowing some light through. At the minute neither kitchen window or kitchen door have any blinds at all.

On the subject of moulding, you can get L shaped pvc or wood mouldings from builders merchants (not sure of diy sheds, probably but more expensive) instead of U and stick two together. (or if you are handy with a router, make your own). I used the L shaped wood ones like that for a folding door I couldnt get proper closing trim for. Used one, cut one and then used glue on wood trim (like that for kitchen worktop/kitchen unit edging) to neaten up the joins (they were irregular).

Coastalwatch · 27 October 2019 at 6:51PM

Thanks for your informative reply Joe it's much appreciated. When it comes leaving blinds permanently closed in the darker months I have to confess to having that in mind also. Reassuring to learn that you already do so. After all it's got to be less costly illuminating a room for a couple of hours a day than heat it for 8, let alone 24! For those darkest months when the blinds are permanently closed I might even cut out close fitting sheets of Celotex to fit in the window recess also.

I take your point about mould etc but I guess the only way to find out is to give it a go. Our bathroom is on the north facing wall so keen to try it there. We do have an extractor fitted which may help to alleviate the mildew aspect?
Thanks to for the tip re overlapping two pieces of angle together a grand idea and certainly worth investigating as an alternative.

Of coure if I did every window and door, singular, patio and bifold then I guess 75 metres of C section might just be needed. Lord knows what the eventual total cost of the blinds would finish up at!
I know, tilting at windmills again.:)

joefizz · 28 October 2019 at 8:31AM

Coastalwatch wrote: »

For those darkest months when the blinds are permanently closed I might even cut out close fitting sheets of Celotex to fit in the window recess also.

Ive toyed with the idea of fitting shutters to the outside north facing windows just for winter use. Ive seen that a lot in colder countries and wondered if it was insulation or more to just keep the cold wind hitting the windows constantly.
My north facing side is just the back garden and then fields so even a couple of sheets of exterior ply glued up for one winter to test... ...well you can tell Im not married ;-)
Friends and family might stage an intervention if I ended up doing that though, might at least have to put some effort in to making them look good or at least make it look like there hasnt been some sort of natural disaster!

Martyn1981 · 28 October 2019 at 8:36AM

We have them in the conservatory, covering windows and glass (DG) roof. Hard to know how much they help, but they must do something.

I open them when it's sunny, and the room will heat up, then ASHP on to heat through to living room. Also, now, time to lay the winter floor covering which is those foam sections that jigsaw together. Adds a bit of insulation to the floor, and hopefully as they are black will absorb some more sunlight heat.

Blinds are not kitten proof, the cords can be chewed through!

Coastalwatch · 28 October 2019 at 10:16AM

joefizz wrote: »

Ive toyed with the idea of fitting shutters to the outside north facing windows just for winter use. Ive seen that a lot in colder countries and wondered if it was insulation or more to just keep the cold wind hitting the windows constantly.
My north facing side is just the back garden and then fields so even a couple of sheets of exterior ply glued up for one winter to test... ...well you can tell Im not married ;-)
Friends and family might stage an intervention if I ended up doing that though, might at least have to put some effort in to making them look good or at least make it look like there hasnt been some sort of natural disaster!

Hah, hah. Yes, I reckon they'd soon have the men in white coats organised to put you back on the straight and narrow. Or....... are we the more sensible now!
As you suggest external shutters would certainly help keep the cold wind off of the glass but how to give them an aesthetic look might be difficult. I guess you could always enlist your local street artists to come along with their cans of spray paint. I've heard Banksy is very good!

I open them when it's sunny, and the room will heat up, then ASHP on to heat through to living room. Also, now, time to lay the winter floor covering which is those foam sections that jigsaw together. Adds a bit of insulation to the floor, and hopefully as they are black will absorb some more sunlight heat.

Blinds are not kitten proof, the cords can be chewed through!

Like the idea of the those interlocking foam sections Mart, could use them in ours too. Our bathroom and ensuite, which have cold tiled floors, might also benefit from them. When walking bare footed in winter time they will certainly be more comfortable than tiles.

Thankfully we're pet free here, it's just the grandchildren we'd have to look out for.:)

Coastalwatch · 2 November 2019 at 6:38PM

joefizz wrote: »

I didnt bother with the large main bedroom windows because Id already had both thermal liners and thermal curtains and used a pull down blackout blind instead. I did an experiment last winter with that stick on plastic film you can use as secondary double glazing as its a rather large window (3m wide) and it cut down the noise slightly which was its purpose.

Thanks for the mentioning plastic film Joe, by coincidence was talking to guy this week who'd fitted it in his entire shop front window which was single glazed otherwise, couldn't tell from outside it was there. Apparently it came from a well known DIY store beginning with w so I searched their website and discovered they'd got it reduced from £6 to £5 at the moment. Naturally I bought two 6 sq metre/packs including double sided tape in each.

Fitted it to the two bathroom windows this afternoon, followed the simple instructions finishing up with wifey's hairdryer to smooth out any wrinkles and so far it's barely visible so we'll see how it performs in the coming days and weeks. If successful it's very cost effective, about £1.50's worth for both windows!:)

Martyn1981 · 2 November 2019 at 6:58PM

joefizz wrote: »

Ive toyed with the idea of fitting shutters to the outside north facing windows just for winter use. Ive seen that a lot in colder countries and wondered if it was insulation or more to just keep the cold wind hitting the windows constantly.
My north facing side is just the back garden and then fields so even a couple of sheets of exterior ply glued up for one winter to test... ...well you can tell Im not married ;-)
Friends and family might stage an intervention if I ended up doing that though, might at least have to put some effort in to making them look good or at least make it look like there hasnt been some sort of natural disaster!

I recall a photo of a window (from the inside) in a Canadian property. It was on another forum, and I can't remember why it was posted (it was probably 5+yrs ago), but it intrigued me and others as we couldn't make much sense of what we were looking at, just a small window, and an odd looking surround - enormous surround.

The explanation was that the window we were looking at was just a small one (let's say 2ft by 1ft) in an insulated frame, which slots into the 'real' window internal surround, a much larger one (let's say 6ft by 5ft) during the cold months. This big removable 'thing' is carpet coated on the inner side for a nice soft contact with the real window.

Perhaps a bit toooooo much?

JKenH · 2 November 2019 at 8:09PM

I have often toyed with the idea of cutting a 100mm slab of Kingspan to fit tight inside the window reveal on one room where we never open the curtains. Annoyingly the height of the widow is 1350mm so it would involve 2 slabs so it hasn’t happened.

Coastalwatch · 2 November 2019 at 10:36PM

JKenH wrote: »

I have often toyed with the idea of cutting a 100mm slab of Kingspan to fit tight inside the window reveal on one room where we never open the curtains. Annoyingly the height of the widow is 1350mm so it would involve 2 slabs so it hasn’t happened.

I had two slabs of 50mm Celotex(kingspan) over from insulating the workshop. Our lounge window measures 2240mm x 1500mm so they have now been appropriately cut into two pieces 1250 x 1500 and placed in the recesss every evening once the sun goes down. Bit of a ritual I know but it does just help to keep the room at a more constant temperature. The downside being in the morning when removing it doesn't take long for the cold glass to run with condensation.

On the plus side, perhaps it saves us from running a de humidifier!

Martyn1981 · 3 November 2019 at 9:02AM

Coastalwatch wrote: »

I had two slabs of 50mm Celotex(kingspan) over from insulating the workshop. Our lounge window measures 2240mm x 1500mm so they have now been appropriately cut into two pieces 1250 x 1500 and placed in the recesss every evening once the sun goes down. Bit of a ritual I know but it does just help to keep the room at a more constant temperature. The downside being in the morning when removing it doesn't take long for the cold glass to run with condensation.

On the plus side, perhaps it saves us from running a de humidifier!

Last year I made 10m2 of PIR panels for the cat rescue to insert in all the open (meshed) sections, once the weather got cold. Only bought 2 panels (about 3.5m2) the rest I accumulated in the Summer from 'skipping'.

To avoid cat damage, and breakage when moved/stored, I armour plated them with 2mm HDPE (which I did have to buy). Then glued them together and taped up the edges with duct tape (having first sealed the PIR with PVA adhesive (5:1 mix)). Make sure the tape is wide enough to stick to both sides of the PIR, or PIR and plastic sheet, as it won't stick well to PIR.

During the hot weather these are then stored with the silver side facing up, up against the roof sections that have clear plastic, to provide shade and reflect some heat.

Quick tip for anyone thinking of doing something like this, cutting PIR straight with a long blade knife is tricky, but a wood saw will go through it like butter, however, make sure you use your oldest and bluntest saw, as this stuff will take the edge of a new saw instantly.

Thermal honeycomb blind conundrum!

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