Italian traffic Penalty Fee via Debt Collector

violets33
violets33 Posts: 5
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edited 12 August 2020 at 9:53AM in Flights, currency & car hire
I have received a notification for an italian traffic penalty fee via a debt collector 3.5 years after the date of the offence. The debt collector has provided the original penalty notification letter which is dated nearly 2.5 years ago but it never reached me eventhough it has my address (i have no proof that they actually posted it obviously). The fee that I need to pay now to the debt collector is over 3 times higher than what I would have had to pay had I received the original letter from the Italian police. I think the penalty is genuine, I was driving a hire car in Pisa at the time, but I now have to pay £360 instead of 110 euro because I never received the original letter, this seems really unfair. Does anyone know if I have any rights in this situation? Note that I also did not get any notification from the hire car company about this.
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  • EveryWhere
    EveryWhere Posts: 3,249 Forumite
    Pay the fine direct and ignore the collector?
  • Well the problem is that it is over 2 years after the deadline to pay the fine and the terms and conditions state something that an increased fee will apply, though it is not clear what the increased amount is.
  • pogofish
    pogofish Posts: 10,852
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    Which debt collector?

    If it’s a U.K.-based one, then the odds are exceptionally high that they have bought-up penalties the overseas authorities know are utterly unenforceable and thus have no chance of collecting.

    In that case they should be treated like any other predatory private debt vulture and ignored.

    See post 4 of the Newbies Sticky in the parking tickets Subforum for complete clarification of “ignore” !
  • The debt collector is waters and gate but I think I have made a very BIG beginners mistake then by calling them back to find out what the debt is about as their initial letter didn't have any additional details. Can I ignore them from now on, or do I have to suck it up and pay? They now have my telephone number, email address, etc. I would have thought now that I have confirmed that it's me and they have my details, I am a bit stuffed...
  • cubegame
    cubegame Posts: 2,042
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    You should have ignored them in the first place.

    Are you absolutely sure it's kosher? It's unusual that the authorities wouldn't get the fine from your credit card via the hire car company.
  • Voyager2002
    Voyager2002 Posts: 15,244
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    violets33 wrote: »
    The debt collector is waters and gate but I think I have made a very BIG beginners mistake then by calling them back to find out what the debt is about as their initial letter didn't have any additional details. Can I ignore them from now on, or do I have to suck it up and pay? They now have my telephone number, email address, etc. I would have thought now that I have confirmed that it's me and they have my details, I am a bit stuffed...


    They did have a name and address: now they have a phone number to go with that. So they can continue to pester you (although you have some legal protection against harrassment) but so long as you did not "acknowledge the debt" they are probably still on very shaky legal ground.
  • eDicky
    eDicky Posts: 6,547
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    cubegame wrote: »
    You should have ignored them in the first place.

    Are you absolutely sure it's kosher? It's unusual that the authorities wouldn't get the fine from your credit card via the hire car company.
    I think in Italy the hire firm pass your contact details to the authority, and charge you for doing so. Then presumably you get the ticket by mail (or email).

    I'm expecting one, speeding probably, firm debited their charge on my card already, four+ months after the infringment.
    Evolution, not revolution
  • I would write to the original issuer of the fine and ask for copies of all the original notices that were sent to you. Explain that you have not received them and ask them to take the debt back from the collectors. I don't know Italian law but debt collectors cannot keep the debt indefinitely I think they have to pass it back to the issuer. You do not say if they are based in the U.K.but this will make a big difference.
  • pogofish
    pogofish Posts: 10,852
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    edited 16 December 2019 at 6:31PM
    Ahh - Waters & Gate of where, that epicentre of international litigation - North Sheilds!

    A complete bunch of scummers who can only send you scary letters no matter that you have contacted them.

    Ignore, ignore and ignore thrice-more. Do not contact the principal as they have got shot of any alleged debt to W&G for a pittance and can help you no more - in fact there is some indication that overseas forces/authorities simply don’t bother following through with paperwork for fines they know they can’t enforce and just punt-on the ticket to W&G and their ilk.

    If you complain to anyone, make it trading standards.

    Also, there are far more appropriate forums here to post about these jokers in, unless getting tickets was the express purpose of your holiday?
  • I was caught 2 intrusion into the zone that I was unaware existed, i am guessing that the incursion happened when the road I was trying to follow was shut.   The first I knew of it was when I queried the two charges on my credit card that arrived 9 months after I'd left Italy.  As I had no idea what they were for I used the credit card money back scheme for unauthorised entries successfully.  The Tickets arrived @ the 12 month anniversary of my visit.  As far as I am concerned the time it took to process the charges was so rediculously beyong the time of the alleged offence any recollection of exactly what happened. let alone mounting a defence. was long gone,  I have no problem with the morals of not paying under these circumstances an will ignore any further communication.  as I understand it I am unlikely to actually be summoned in a UK court but would b ill advised to get stopped by traffic cops in Italy until the event is at least 5 years old which for me is mid 2012.  If they are serious I am happy to answer charges in a UK court.
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