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    • Loveworking1999
    • By Loveworking1999 23rd Nov 19, 12:44 PM
    • 3Posts
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    Loveworking1999
    Unfairly selected for redundancy
    • #1
    • 23rd Nov 19, 12:44 PM
    Unfairly selected for redundancy 23rd Nov 19 at 12:44 PM
    Iíve been selected to be made redundant from a job/role Iíve been doing at the same place for 20 years. There are new guys theyíve taken on in the last 2 years, with fewer qualifications and much less experience than me who are staying. I believe itís because I do not get on with a senior manager in our area, then is no other reason. All my appraisals have been great, never been disciplined for anything, never late, very few days off sick (apart from an operation last year). I also trained many of the new starters, and am multi skilled in more than one area, Iím almost one of the longest serving employees in our department.

    Iím going to appeal it, but the union is non existent in our company so donít hold out any hope of it being overturned.

    What are my next steps, and who should I speak to please?
Page 1
    • elsien
    • By elsien 23rd Nov 19, 12:46 PM
    • 20,250 Posts
    • 51,587 Thanks
    elsien
    • #2
    • 23rd Nov 19, 12:46 PM
    • #2
    • 23rd Nov 19, 12:46 PM
    Are you in a union, regardless of whether your company recognises them? If so, contact them.
    How many people are being made redundant?
    What are the selection criteria?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Loveworking1999
    • By Loveworking1999 23rd Nov 19, 12:57 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Loveworking1999
    • #3
    • 23rd Nov 19, 12:57 PM
    • #3
    • 23rd Nov 19, 12:57 PM
    I’m in a union so shall contact them to speak to their solicitors.

    Approximately 35 are being made redundant but a very high percentage of those are voluntary, a lot of staff who are in their 60’s who’ve worked there for 35+ years

    There was a scoring system/selection criteria but we never saw it
    • elsien
    • By elsien 23rd Nov 19, 1:07 PM
    • 20,250 Posts
    • 51,587 Thanks
    elsien
    • #4
    • 23rd Nov 19, 1:07 PM
    • #4
    • 23rd Nov 19, 1:07 PM
    You need to find out what the selection criteria are. You don't have the right to see other people's scores, but you can't appeal that tbe selection process is unfair if you've no idea what they've based it on. Was this not discussed on the consultation?

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-legal-rights-when-facing-redundancy/amp
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Loveworking1999
    • By Loveworking1999 23rd Nov 19, 1:12 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Loveworking1999
    • #5
    • 23rd Nov 19, 1:12 PM
    • #5
    • 23rd Nov 19, 1:12 PM
    Ok I will find out next week the selection criteria and let you know elsien

    Whatever it was, surely I’ve been unfairly scored if I’ve been selected to go over employees with less than 2 years experience? I’ve never been spoken to in any way about my attendance, performance or attitude. I turn up, get the job done and go home. I’m also hugely flexible when it comes to changing my working hours or providing cover across shifts to cover sickness and holidays
    • Blatchford
    • By Blatchford 23rd Nov 19, 1:32 PM
    • 407 Posts
    • 628 Thanks
    Blatchford
    • #6
    • 23rd Nov 19, 1:32 PM
    • #6
    • 23rd Nov 19, 1:32 PM
    You need to find out what the criteria were before you start constructing an argument. Just because someone has been there less than two years isn't a good reason to make them redundant instead of you; and there could be very strong arguments for retaining staff with less service that you. Simply using "first in, last out" is highly risky for an employer - your length of service should not matter. So you need to find out why you scored poorly.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 23rd Nov 19, 1:33 PM
    • 20,250 Posts
    • 51,587 Thanks
    elsien
    • #7
    • 23rd Nov 19, 1:33 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Nov 19, 1:33 PM
    You can't say you've been unfairly scored without knowing how they've done it. Length of service can be lawful in some circumstances if it doesn't then unfairly indirectly discriminate on the grounds of age (for example.)
    You might want to repost this on the employment subforum here - it gets more views than the redundancy one.

    You didn't answer the question about the consultation- they have done a proper consultation process?
    Last edited by elsien; 23-11-2019 at 1:35 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 23rd Nov 19, 3:11 PM
    • 4,480 Posts
    • 3,876 Thanks
    Undervalued
    • #8
    • 23rd Nov 19, 3:11 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Nov 19, 3:11 PM
    Ok I will find out next week the selection criteria and let you know elsien

    Whatever it was, surely Iíve been unfairly scored if Iíve been selected to go over employees with less than 2 years experience? Iíve never been spoken to in any way about my attendance, performance or attitude. I turn up, get the job done and go home. Iím also hugely flexible when it comes to changing my working hours or providing cover across shifts to cover sickness and holidays
    Originally posted by Loveworking1999
    If an employee has less than two years service the employer could simply dismiss them as they have no protection against unfair dismissal or any entitlement to redundancy. This would be a normal first move with zero cost for any employer seeing to reduce the workforce.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 23rd Nov 19, 3:54 PM
    • 38,035 Posts
    • 23,599 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #9
    • 23rd Nov 19, 3:54 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Nov 19, 3:54 PM
    If an employee has less than two years service the employer could simply dismiss them as they have no protection against unfair dismissal or any entitlement to redundancy. This would be a normal first move with zero cost for any employer seeing to reduce the workforce.
    Originally posted by Undervalued
    Not when there are other factors like skill mix and costs.

    Can be cheaper to get rid of the overpaid long term employee.
    • buggy_boy
    • By buggy_boy 3rd Dec 19, 2:42 AM
    • 644 Posts
    • 477 Thanks
    buggy_boy
    Not when there are other factors like skill mix and costs.

    Can be cheaper to get rid of the overpaid long term employee.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Getting rid of longer term employees could be seen as indirect age discrimination, the company would then have to state a legitimate aim for this pcp, cost saving alone would be unlikely to be enough. So many employers fall foul of this..
    • happyc84
    • By happyc84 11th Dec 19, 6:19 PM
    • 167 Posts
    • 84 Thanks
    happyc84
    To the Op - Been made redundant a few times; so take the package and move on - why would you stay in a toxic workplace that don't want you
    • Jono111
    • By Jono111 11th Dec 19, 7:10 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 80 Thanks
    Jono111
    To the OP. Number of days sickness in the last 1 or 2 years is commonly used as part of the selection process. It does not matter if you have only had one week off in the past 35 years, if that week was taken in the time covered in the selection criteria it will count against you.
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