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  • FIRST POST
    • trailingspouse
    • By trailingspouse 15th Oct 19, 7:28 AM
    • 3,844Posts
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    trailingspouse
    Unpaid Fare Penalty
    • #1
    • 15th Oct 19, 7:28 AM
    Unpaid Fare Penalty 15th Oct 19 at 7:28 AM
    Apologies if this has been asked before.
    I travel by train a couple of times a month, always buy my ticket before I board, fine upstanding member of the community etc etc. And always, on every train I've been on, a conductor has come round both checking tickets and selling tickets to people without them.


    Until the other day - I arrived at the platform at the same time as the train, so just hopped on, and would have bought a ticket if the conductor had come round - but they didn't. So, I arrived at my destination with no ticket and went straight to the Ticket desk to get one.


    Next thing I know, I'm being accused of fare dodging and being issued with an Unpaid Fare Notice (the man I spoke to explained that he could have issued a fine for 20 but 'on this occasion' wouldn't).


    Now obviously I think this is unfair - and I've appealed. In fact both the person who issued the Unpaid Fare Notice, and the conductor (oh yes, there was a conductor this time!!) on the return journey told me to appeal!!



    Does anyone have any thoughts about the likelihood of my appeal being successful? The amounts aren't huge - but I object to being recorded as an Offender.
Page 2
    • Takmon
    • By Takmon 27th Oct 19, 12:59 PM
    • 979 Posts
    • 981 Thanks
    Takmon
    What a weird, inaccurate analogy; the OP specifically said they " went straight to the Ticket desk [analogy: checkout] to [pay]."
    Originally posted by yorkie2
    If you read the OP again you will see on this occasion instead of going to the ticket desk and getting a ticket at the first station [analogy: supermarket branch] they instead boarded the train without one.

    They then went to buy a ticket at a different station after they had used the service so effectively "tried to pay at a different supermarket branch" because you are supposed to buy a ticket before you travel when the station you are leaving from has a ticket office.
    • Kiko4564
    • By Kiko4564 2nd Dec 19, 7:19 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Kiko4564
    As much as I think being called an "offender" without a trial is harsh, I still think that the OP should take responsibility for their own actions.
    • Kiko4564
    • By Kiko4564 2nd Dec 19, 7:20 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Kiko4564
    Why didn't they just issue a return UPFN in the first place then? I don't see any reason why they can't, unless they believed you were fare dodging, which clearly they did not.
    • yorkie2
    • By yorkie2 7th Dec 19, 12:54 AM
    • 1,409 Posts
    • 543 Thanks
    yorkie2
    If you read the OP again you will see on this occasion instead of going to the ticket desk and getting a ticket at the first station [analogy: supermarket branch] they instead boarded the train without one.

    They then went to buy a ticket at a different station after they had used the service so effectively "tried to pay at a different supermarket branch" because you are supposed to buy a ticket before you travel when the station you are leaving from has a ticket office.
    Originally posted by Takmon
    Nonsense; the analogy makes no sense, as I stated above.



    I find it amusing when people try to apply supermarket analogies to railway tickets; such comparisons can be made for amusement purposes only and not for serious discussion.



    Why didn't they just issue a return UPFN in the first place then? I don't see any reason why they can't, unless they believed you were fare dodging, which clearly they did not.
    Originally posted by Kiko4564
    Firstly, not all Train Companies will issue Unpaid Fare Notices (UFNs) for return journeys.



    Secondly, if a member of staff believes a passenger is "fare dodging" and wishes to proceed on that basis, the correct action is not to issue a UFN but instead to report the matter for prosecution.


    A UFN is issued where a passenger is unable - or not expected - to pay the fare due, which could be for a variety of reasons, but has nothing to do with accusations of "fare dodging"
    • Kiko4564
    • By Kiko4564 9th Dec 19, 8:08 PM
    • 100 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Kiko4564
    Not necessarily, what about a passenger boarding a service at a station where you can pay on the train e.g. a Greater Anglia Paytrain station, but who had no money and intended on chancing it i.e. paying only when challenged, and even then on another day, and not immediately. Is that not a form of fare dodging, even if the person intends on giving their name and address, and paying a UPFN within 21 days?
    Last edited by Kiko4564; 09-12-2019 at 8:11 PM.
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