Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

HateLPG · 18 August 2012 at 12:06AM

lpgrrrrr wrote: »

Flogas have quoted me 42ppl fixed 12 months with £250 goodwill credit, £52 pa standing charge (sounds quite good I think). I'm in Surrey.

Increases thereafter, so the salesman tells me, are limited by law to a maximum of 5ppl in 12 months unless the wholesale price has gone up by more than that- anyone else heard of this?

Yes. This is NOT by choice on Flogas' part, it is as a result of the OFT insisting that Flogas clean up their act in terms of contractual pricing. See my recent posts here and here for more detail and my guess at what this will mean for the end user.

Specifically, what Flogas offer is (from their current contract at http://www.flogas.co.uk/226/domestic-contract-terms-and-conditions) is:

5.7 Where the cost of supplying the LPG increases due to:
5.7.1 any underlying increase in the cost of LPG as evidenced by reference to the relevant Platts LPG price index for North West Europe (taking into account any relevant exchange rate issues);

5.7.2 any increase in our direct transportation costs; and/or

5.7.3 any increase (not related to clause 5.7.1)in the cost to us of purchasing LPG from our suppliers,
we retain the right to pass on such increases to you by increasing the price of our LPG.

We may increase (in a single step or a series of steps) the price of LPG for the reasons listed at clauses 5.7.2 and 5.7.3 by no more than five pence per litre in any twelve month period. Please note that no such limit shall apply to any increase which reflects an increase in the underlying cost of LPG (as set out at clause 5.7.1). For the avoidance of doubt, the maximum increase in the price of LPG (the "Upper Annual Limit") in a given period is:
(a) the cost increase over the corresponding period due to clause 5.7.1; plus

(b) the cost increase over the corresponding period due to clauses 5.7.2 and/or 5.7.3 together,
where (a) is an unlimited increase and (b) shall be limited to a maximum of five pence per litre in any 12 month period.

Which I would suggest (based on knowledge of Flogas pricing policies) really means "You can expect a guaranteed MINIMUM annual price increase of 5ppl and you can add to that any increase in wholesale prices that occurs during your contract period, without limit or cap".

Given the current low prices of LPG (see the graph), I would therefore treat any such offer from Flogas with extreme caution.

LittleVermin · 21 August 2012 at 9:07PM

This is a reply to the latest post in the short thread mentioned in the subject line, started by Lum. I'm commenting in the sticky as it could be useful in the future - it's about a metered estate, with an underground tank. All the quotes are from Lum's posts, I've posted twice in the thread (but not quoted here).

Just started renting a new place. It's a nice bungalow that we picked because it is completely wheelchair accessible. Problem is, LPG heating, which is supplied by Calor.

It's on an estate with 17 properties, a shared LPG tank and our own individual gas meter.
.....
Is it possible to change supplier on a shared system? is there any scope for negotiating a better deal?

I have no contact details for the estate management company, and only a postal address for the landlord. There's 17 properties on the estate so I have no idea if switching suppliers is possible or likely. Two of the houses are also up for sale.

.......As for the contract, I crossed out all the clauses relating to a 2 year exclusivity deal, which their phone operator said they were fine with, so will see if they accept that. I haven't yet sent off the form, sending it tomorrow, so if this is not a good approach, please tell me!

From what I can see though 43ppl isn't too bad right now. The phone operator also seemed surprised that the rate I'd been quoted was so low, claiming it was the lowest she'd seen for a metered estate, then let slip that they were currently in renegotiation with the management company over the supply for our estate.

Of course this could all have been a complete fabrication intended to stop me from trying to mobilise my neighbours into switching supplier, but I haven't been able to find LPG much cheaper than this.

Good for you for getting the 2 year clauses deleted - but I doubt that will have any effect as anyone signing a 2 yr contract on a metered estate ties everyone in for the next two years. And so it goes on! [Check clauses 5.46 - 5.49 in the OFT report - link below].

If Calor are negotiating with the management company then maybe you could inform ALL the companies who will supply your area* of the management company's address (and tell your neighbours, the management company, etc!). Metered estates really are cash cows for the suppliers! People on metered estates have posted amazing prices on the forum (amazingly high, of course).

OFT reported last year (Off-grid Energy Report, here) that the % of metered estates switching since the Competition Commission Domestic Bulk LPG Order came in was very low - 0.9% in 2009-10, and 0.5% in 2010-11 (Table 5.4).

For individual users, switching figures were 3.7% in 2009-10 and 4.1% in 2010-11 (before the Order the figure - for 2003 - was 0.3%, but there was no equivalent figure for metered estates).
..
(Apologies for the long post. I hope replies will be in this sticky!).

* Post the first part of your post code and people will help with suppliers and comments. Some suppliers will be on the UKLPG website.

Lum · 22 August 2012 at 2:24AM

I'm in NP16. Cheapest price I've found is Cardiff Gas at 42.something ppl.

I still have no contact details for the management company, and my landlord rarely responds to emails and never answers his phone. The rest of the properties on the estate appear to be owned rather than rented, so it might be possible to switch.

At least I know it wont be me that's screwed it up.

Is 43.5ppl actually a good price? There's also a standing charge of 14.25p/day

One thing I do know.. I'm glad our boiler can take our old external thermostat/timer

LittleVermin · 22 August 2012 at 12:46PM

Lum wrote: »

I'm in NP16. Cheapest price I've found is Cardiff Gas at 42.something ppl.

I still have no contact details for the management company, and my landlord rarely responds to emails and never answers his phone. The rest of the properties on the estate appear to be owned rather than rented, so it might be possible to switch.

At least I know it wont be me that's screwed it up.

Is 43.5ppl actually a good price? There's also a standing charge of 14.25p/day......

You first posted almost a couple of months ago that you'd just moved in - your landlord and your estate's management company seem surprisingly elusive.

All I can suggest is that you contact Cardiff Gas and see if they want to chase up what you haven't been able to - on the off-chance of getting a contract. Cardiff Gas seem very pleasant over the phone (but then most suppliers are!) BUT drfrot has become a customer of theirs and speaks very highly of them - (see here, here, here, and here - and please give him/her 'thanks' for taking the time to tell us.)

Their prices - at least for individual users - go up and down - see the graph. Your initial Calor price seems very reasonable at the present time (you wrote that the Calor person on the phone was surprised it was so reasonable! - all you need to know!) ... and I expect it will go up (but never down) until eternity ... as new people sign the 2 yr contracts which lock you all in. It doesn't really matter who has "screwed it up" - you'll all be paying!

Does the management company have any interest in getting the best deal for the residents? Maybe there really are some savvy residents on the management board? - or maybe not!

'Standing charge' of about £52 a year is standard for a single user tank (normal range is about £50-70).

Lum · 22 August 2012 at 2:12PM

LittleVermin wrote: »

You first posted almost a couple of months ago that you'd just moved in - your landlord and your estate's management company seem surprisingly elusive.

I have to be honest, I haven't had a great deal of time to deal with this. I'm currently having to learn employment law as my GFs employer seem to have decided that employing a disabled person is too much hassle, but that's a topic for a different thread.

The landlord, well he responded to my email asking for his bank details to pay him rent, but not so much on my other emails, from what I can tell he has some problems going on right now too.

I'll get around to sorting this eventually.

ohmochraich · 22 August 2012 at 2:20PM

I'm up in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland area - and I have just been quoted 58.75p per litre:eek: anyone know of any cheaper suppliers to this area? - this means Im going to have to pay over £1,000 to fill a tank.

bobhawke · 23 August 2012 at 8:09AM

ohmochraich wrote: »

I'm up in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland area - and I have just been quoted 58.75p per litre:eek: anyone know of any cheaper suppliers to this area? - this means Im going to have to pay over £1,000 to fill a tank.

Got very little choice in Scotland, even less now that BP is owned by DCC (Flogas).
Try Jgas. http://www.johnston-oils.co.uk/lpg-gas-scotland.html

Lum · 23 August 2012 at 9:16AM

Well apparently we (as in the estate) have some kind of agreement in place with Calor that it wont go above 43.5p, and have had for several years now.

Unfortunately the neighbour I spoke too was rather busy and didn't know the full details either, however with an agreement like that in place I doubt there will be much mood for switching.

frankie · 24 August 2012 at 9:57AM

Calor set to increase prices in October!! What a surprise!!

Had a top up last week from Calor but they only topped up to 82% not 87% so I had a go at them saying no doubt they will be charging a higher price for the missing 5%.

Lo and behold, yes she said there is a planned increase due in October of 3.5ppl (well it wouldn't be less than that would it!). Any way I got a £10 credit and as I don't use that much gas anyway it will see me through till contract end next July (being away for 2 months in the winter too).

Still had my moan, gained on my principles and hopefully have given MSE Calor customers a bit of a heads up - order your gas soon!!

PS currently paying 48.9 ppl +VAT

rachieb77 · 24 August 2012 at 12:24PM

Hello everyone! I'm new to this thread and a complete LPG novice!

After reading lots of the useful info on this thread, I feel like I know a lot more than when I first started looking!

We are purchasing a property which has an above-ground LPG tank in the garden. The current supplier is Countrywide.

The purchase is due to complete in about 2 weeks. I'm so glad I found this thread - as someone who's always had a mains supply, I didn't realise there were multiple LPG suppliers and that you could negotiate prices (told you I was naive before reading this thread!). As new customers, I'm hoping we are in a strong position to negotiate.

I've looked on the LPGUK website to see who delivers in our area. Potential suppliers are: Avanti, Flogas, Callow Gas, Lister Gases, Cardiff Gas, Calor Gas and Carver Gases.

I've fired emails off to them all asking what price they charge per litre (and if they offer fixed pricing), how much tank rental is and whether there are any incentives for new customers.

I called Countrywide the other day to say we'd be moving into the property but they didn't mention prices, etc, for if we signed a new contract/opened a new account with them, so I guess I can go back to them once I get some prices in from the other companies (although not sure what happens with the tank rental and if this remains with Countrywide?).

Does anyone have any general advice for negotiating as a new customer? And should I avoid any of the companies above (based on price hikes, poor customer service, etc)?

Thanks in advance!

Rachel

Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

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