Employment tribunal round 2

ScaredButHopeful · 13 October 2018 at 1:13PM

Hi
After an unsuccessful tribunal hearing in which I represented myself, I am now at the start of another.
I previously lost, I accepted that as it was my own fault.
I just buckled in the court and spent most of the days in tears.
Therefore not asking the right questions or answering in enough detail.
However, the following day, a colleague put a completely humiliating social media post up about me being a loser.
This was sent to me by a mutual friend and in an office of 6 people, 5 had liked or laughed at it, not including staff members who I managed in my role and a branch manager of another area we run.
The comments were humiliating.
I had been off work for a period of 10 months due to stress and a back injury and I mailed the company director to say this was humiliating etc but I received no reply.
Other things had happened in this 10 months such as receiving texts accusing me of immature things which I blocked the person and refused to respond.
I then felt I had to resign as my email was ignored and within 24 hours received a basic acceptance to the resignation.
I had mental health issues due to the stress of it all which my employer was aware of including a stupid suicide attempt and this whole thing sent me crashing back down.
These people were colleagues and my outside acquaintances are also theres so I felt cut off and distraught.
I now have legal representation who has filed for constructive dismissal and victimisation amongst other things.
Because I was off for 10 months prior to this, do I have any hope of succession or will they say they was going to fire me anyway?
This time I don’t have to represent myself which is a big relief but I have no idea of victimisation law as google refers back to discrimination etc
I’m off work and seeing a psych team twice a week.
I’m not a stupid person, just a defeated weak humiliated one right now.
Should I just cut my losses or show them that this is unacceptable?
Thank you in advance

Masomnia · 13 October 2018 at 1:37PM

If your colleagues have been that awful to you and the company did nothing about it then yes that could be grounds for constructive dismissal. The timings could be an issue. I think you need get advice from your lawyer and not here tbh, only you can decide if it's worth it to pursue.

At the end of the day you've got legal representation, and it's their job to know the law and win your case. You just have to turn up and explain what happened.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

sangie595 · 13 October 2018 at 1:58PM

If you have legal representation you ask them these questions. If you have so little faith in their answers that you can't ask so are asking here, don't do this. You are about to enter into one of the most stressful and difficult claims. Next to nobody wins constructive dismissal. Based on only a few sentences I can see real weaknesses that I'd want to explore before going to tribunal. Your lawyer should be doing that. So you really need to talk to them about the chances and your ability to withstand another tribunal. Possibly also consult your doctor. I'm not going to sugar coat it - it will be intensely difficult and a representative can only do so much. They cannot protect you from some of the most stressful aspects. In fact they can't protect you from most of them. But only you can decide, based on a realistic assessment of the case and your health, whether you can or should do this thing.

sangie595 · 13 October 2018 at 2:22PM

Just to add, I've been through your previous posts on this matter. The lost tribunal is relatively recent, you'd turned down a settlement to pursue it and lost on both whistleblowing and disability discrimination. Your relationship with your employer and colleagues was already at rock bottom, and it seems that the only new evidence that you have here is that a bunch of people, who were posting on their own private media in their own time, said some nasty things about you losing your claim. You weren't in work, you didn't go through the grievance procedure, you just resigned. And you actually have no evidence that the employer did nothing because may have told them off - you weren't entitled to an explanation. So what exactly is your claim? Whistleblowing is done and gone, it can't be claimed again. Disability discrimination the same. There's no such thing as bullying in employment law unless it is harassment linked to specific circumstances which do not appear to apply. So what is your actual claim - people were nasty about me, I'm afraid, just won't cut it.

I'd also question why someone you think of as a friend would send you such comments - be very careful, whatever you decide, about trusting people who may not be what they appear to be. You seem to have done too much of that already. Your colleagues, or a number of them, appeared against you. They have accused you of things that can end your chances of ever working with vulnerable people. And your employer won the whistleblowing claim, so right now you are the one with concerns about professional conduct around them, not them. Stop trusting anyone in that workplace - their motives may very well not be anything like you think.

And if you have signed up to a no win, no fee legal agreement, please read carefully what the terms are. Solely based on the information you've provided I can't see what is in it for the lawyer. Which would worry me. Apply "not trusting motives" to lawyers as well!

ScaredButHopeful · 13 October 2018 at 7:37PM

Thank you all for your replies.
I’ve had conversations with the solicitor of course and they have been very good. But I’m aware that where there is financial gain, of course it will be positive feedback.
I find that on here, people are bluntly honest which is what I need and why I ask.
I’ve learnt the hard way about trusting people and that’s not something I give anymore and I have zero to do with anyone from my ex employment.
Yes I lost but not because I was malicious. The judge recognised I had a disability, I just didn’t compose myself enough to explain well enough how badly it affected my life. As I said, I was a mess.
Plus the employers got a firm talking to and reminded not to ever pull stunts again.
I lost because I couldn’t pull myself together enough to point to evidence, let alone verbally, not because I lied.
I deserved to loose for that reason, lesson learnt that it’s far more intense than I ever imagined.
All I wanted was to be informed the social media post would be dealt with, privatised or removed.
Surely that’s not too much to expect. And still it’s out there, humiliating and not allowing my mental demons to see past the humiliation.
Why would you do that to someone?
I didn’t settle last time as it wasn’t about money, it genuinely was because what was happening needed to stop and hopefully it has. A second offer did come in last time but I rejected it due to that reason.
This time it is about money. I’m not ashamed to admit that.
Again thank you all for the comments as I really do take them all on board.

pmduk · 13 October 2018 at 8:10PM

I think you must be feeling very strong to be prepared to face them again to show them that their behaviour is unacceptable. I hope it all does well for you.

sangie595 · 13 October 2018 at 8:23PM

ScaredButHopeful wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies.
I’ve had conversations with the solicitor of course and they have been very good. But I’m aware that where there is financial gain, of course it will be positive feedback. Are you paying for this advice?
I find that on here, people are bluntly honest which is what I need and why I ask.
I’ve learnt the hard way about trusting people and that’s not something I give anymore and I have zero to do with anyone from my ex employment.
Yes I lost but not because I was malicious. The judge recognised I had a disability, I just didn’t compose myself enough to explain well enough how badly it affected my life. As I said, I was a mess. Sorry but that is lost. It doesn't matter - you simply can't have a second bite of the cherry. Please take this in the blunt way that its intended to make the point - They didn't post horrible stuff about you because you are disabled. They did it because you lost a tribunal. You can't go back there.
Plus the employers got a firm talking to and reminded not to ever pull stunts again. No they didn't. Honestly. A "firm talking to" means they lost! They didn't, they won. So a bit of advice on better process is nothing.
I lost because I couldn’t pull myself together enough to point to evidence, let alone verbally, not because I lied. Nobody thinks toy did. Tribunals are hard. Toy did the best you could, but don't beat yourself up. Most cases lose. Your are just another person who lost. You did nothing wrong and it isn't your fault. It's the way the law operates. It is never really much on your side.
I deserved to loose for that reason, lesson learnt that it’s far more intense than I ever imagined.
All I wanted was to be informed the social media post would be dealt with, privatised or removed. Sorry - you can ask for that. You can't demand it and the employer doesn't have to either. Many employers take a dim view of employees social media mixing with work. But it isn't illegal, and if they choose to do nothing, then that is their prerogative. It was not the actions of the employer, but of individuals. A hard case too prove any connection to the employer.
Surely that’s not too much to expect. And still it’s out there, humiliating and not allowing my mental demons to see past the humiliation. I'm going to say this. Humiliation? No. Tough luck? Yes. Get over yourself, in the nicest possible way. Nobody cares about what they say, so stop letting them get to you. Nobody cares what they think.
Why would you do that to someone? I'd get banned if I answered that honestly!
I didn’t settle last time as it wasn’t about money, it genuinely was because what was happening needed to stop and hopefully it has. A second offer did come in last time but I rejected it due to that reason.
This time it is about money. I’m not ashamed to admit that.
Again thank you all for the comments as I really do take them all on board.

Right. Get this clear - it is always about money! There is no other point! Principles are wonderful but they did not put food on the table or pay the bills. They won't have changed. They haven't changed. If they had we wouldn't be discussing this now.

Now I want to be reassured that your solicitor isn't playing you. I'm afraid that some do. What exactly had he told you that you are claiming, why does he say there's a case - and most importantly, what are his terms? He's getting paid somehow, and I don't want it to be you that ends up with a loss.

ScaredButHopeful · 13 October 2018 at 9:24PM

It’s a NWNF solicitor.
I pay nothing if not successful and I’ve checked the small print and this is correct.
Victimisation, breech of contract, constructive dismissal, harassment are the case basis.
I was due to return to work. The post was liked and commented on by staff inc a branch manager who I also worked for occasionally as well as 2 managers in my workplace.
Texts sent which I blocked and then came from another number with ref to my mental health etc
People I managed who we are not allowed to be social media friends with commenting derogatory.
No way I could go back.
I explained first that it was up, humiliating etc and said I’d take out a grievance if not taken down but got nothing back.
I’ve been accused of attacking 3 people but never once got a verbal or written and all unfounded and complete lies.
Was told I’m not allowed to contact them so I couldn’t even get out of my contract and they refused to even answer what I was going back to.
Thanks for replying.
Harsh to hear I admit but I need to hear it.

C_Mababejive · 13 October 2018 at 9:56PM

Many people scorn Trade Union membership but if you find yourself in this position, often TU will front up a legal rep to support your case and hopefully increase your chances of winning.

sangie595 · 13 October 2018 at 10:14PM

ScaredButHopeful wrote: »

It’s a NWNF solicitor.
I pay nothing if not successful and I’ve checked the small print and this is correct. Please check again. What happens if it doesn't go to tribunal but a settlement is offered? In many cases they take the money and you could end up owing them more!
Victimisation, breech of contract, constructive dismissal, harassment are the case basis. I'm worried. Victimisation and harassment only apply to certain types of claim - like discrimination. Since you aren't claiming that, how do you get to claim them? How have they breached your contract? You resigned. They were not obliged contractually to answer your email or control the behaviour of individuals outside the workplace. So what did they breach. And for constructive dismissal it is standard - you must have submitted a formal grievance and completed the grievance procedure - unless the employer refuses to. Did you? Did they?
I was due to return to work. The post was liked and commented on by staff inc a branch manager who I also worked for occasionally as well as 2 managers in my workplace. Don't get me wrong. Undoubtedly nasty people. But.... So what. If I wasn't to make nasty comments on social media in my own personal time, then that's my business. It has nothing to do with the employer.
Texts sent which I blocked and then came from another number with ref to my mental health etc Sent by the employer?
People I managed who we are not allowed to be social media friends with commenting derogatory. Did they represent the employer in doing this?
No way I could go back. That doesn't make a case.
I explained first that it was up, humiliating etc and said I’d take out a grievance if not taken down but got nothing back. Aha. So you complained about it? No grievance at all. That is a huge deal breaker for constructive dismissal. Toy really are going to struggle too prove anything.
I’ve been accused of attacking 3 people but never once got a verbal or written and all unfounded and complete lies. So?
Was told I’m not allowed to contact them so I couldn’t even get out of my contract and they refused to even answer what I was going back to. I'm sorry, and I don't disbelieve toy about anything, but seriously???? You take your employer to a tribunal for very serious allegations and you expected them to want to chat and welcome you back? That isn't realistic.
Thanks for replying.
Harsh to hear I admit but I need to hear it.

Look, three one thing that I'm worried about here is not you. You are tougher than you think. Although you really do need too think about where your breaking point is, I honestly don't know how much of this you can take now. So here's the sums. Like I said, it's all about money.

There are no longer any separate statistics, but there is no reason to assume anything has changed. The chances of winning a constructive dismissal case is less than 2%. What you are saying does not make for a great case. And nothing will stop them saying things about you on social media. So what does the solicitor expect you to win? What have they actually said? Because whatever the arrangements, the only people who win tribunals are lawyers. Given the odds here, I'd want to know what they think they will win.

ScaredButHopeful · 13 October 2018 at 10:19PM

Sorry if I appear blunt but it wasn’t about money.
I was bred into chaos and abuse yet I turned the tables and I am ridiculously by the book.
There are ways to cut back and put food on the table but there is nothing that can take back pain and suffering and unjustness.
The first case was about standing for what I believed in, for being the voice of people who couldn’t stand up for themselves.
I was tempted to take a settlement offer at one stage but I declined due to the fact that was never what this was about.
Stupid? Maybe I am.
Now it’s about money as well as the loss of my mental state as it became personal.

Employment tribunal round 2

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