Work capability assessment, I scored 0 points.

BorisThomson · 29 March 2018 at 4:28PM

And finally a few weeks before the tribunal I had gone shopping with my wife. There is one particular women who is in there every single time I go, has a large trolley filled to the brim with every reduced item going (items reduced for quick sale), she barges past people, grabs what she wants, the staff call her the flower lady as every day she has all the reduced flowers etc.

The baker was reducing two identical cakes, she stood right next to him one side, I stood right next to him the other.He placed the two cakes down, she went to grab then both but I grabbed one and our eyes met for a split second.

She said to me in a very stern voice "Don't you look at me like that"

I responded very loudly "if your going to be such a selfish greedy git, I'll look at you any way I want to"

She repeated "don't look at me like that "

I said "well don't be such a greedy pig then, others also are short of cash and would like some of the reduced stuff" and i walked off.

You're not going to be awarded ESA for plain rudeness.

Iwanttobefree · 29 March 2018 at 7:54PM

BorisThomson wrote: »

You're not going to be awarded ESA for plain rudeness.

Before jumping to conclusions, I appreciate it's a bit long, but maybe you need to read about the problem I have with my mental health which is the main reason I can't work, IE not being able to control my thoughts and what comes out of my mouth. To save you the time of reading thorough all these pages (many written when my mind was simply not functioning properly) and finding the biit about my depression, here's a copy of the letter I sent my GP and also sent top the Tribunal, it was the Tribumnal referring to this when I told them about what happened in the supermarket.

I am on this site for help and advice, I appreciate there's too many pages for you to read through, but it's really annoying for me when someone makes an assumption that I'm just a rude person, completely missing the whole point about the main thing stopping me from working.

I have found it incredibly hard to talk about my depression to anybody; I find my symptoms embarrassing and weird.

Recently I created posted under a fake name to a depression forum to see what kind of reaction I had.

Since doing this, it has been a weight off my mind to get it actually down in writing, even if under a different name, and it has allowed me to look at and admit how bad my mental health is.

Here is a shortened version of what I said with the waffle removed.

I avoid answering the phone (I sort of have to spend 10 mins build myself up if I need to phone someone), I dislike talking to strangers.

Even with very good friends, sometimes if I know they are coming around, I really wish they wouldn't.

I can!!!8217;t handle the slightest bit of stress, if I get stressed, I feel physically exhausted and can sleep for hours.

That said, I wouldn't really say I am anxious, I have a sort of "can!!!8217;t be bothered/don!!!8217;t want to talk " feeling in my head rather than panicking over talking to them.

But if I have to say make a phone call, I have to pluck up the courage to do so, and am stressed when I do so, but when I eventually force myself to do it, it always goes fine and I don't feel anxious at all when actually on the phone.

What does concern me is my conscience seems to have a different personality to me.

I'm not hearing voices, it's my conscience, the thoughts I have, just like anyone might think to themselves "hmm what do I do next" or think to themselves "that's an interesting book" it's that voice/conscience.

I am a very very empathetic person; I try to see the best in everybody. I hate it when people refer to drug addicts as druggy scum etc. I don't like it when people talk about the homeless in the same sort of way.

I don't like violence, don't like watching things like boxing or wrestling (although I don't mind a violent action film, I have no problem differentiating between reality and fiction/fantasy)

I also can neither understand nor tolerate any form of racism, I simply cannot fathom how someone can dislike someone else because of where they originated from or the colour of their skin etc. It simply does not compute with me.

I'm happily married, and what I'm about to describe next, never ever happens to my wife, kids or friends I've known for years.

What I find happening almost all the time (especially if I'm stressed and tired, which is quiet often), is when I have to talk to someone (I try to avoid it at all costs), while part of me is usually thinking "he, she seems a nice friendly person", my thoughts are to say to them in a derogatory way, "why don't you just go away" or if they are a person of different race, my conscience voice is calling them a very derogatory racist name.

And it simply isn't me at all.

It doesn!!!8217;t matter what I!!!8217;m talking to them about, unless I know them or am concentrating, my mind is telling me to tell them where to go.

I THINK it!!!8217;s more of a coping mechanism as I don!!!8217;t really want to be in that situation (talking to a stranger), but it!!!8217;s scary all the same.

I also think strange things. I premeditate others being rude to me and premeditate my aggressive vocal response (never ever been physically violent in my life)

For example, I might be walking my dog, I see someone in their garden and I imagine them saying to me "I hope you!!!8217;re going to clear up after your dog"

and I rehearse the entire way I'm going to be abusive back to them, and how the argument is going to go

me "I hope your not a !!!!!phile"
them "How dare you call me a !!!!!phile"
me "how dare you presume I don't clear up after my dog. If you can make untrue judgments based on zero evidence about me, then I'm going to do the same to you"

and of course I walk past and they either say "morning" or nothing or make a comment on how nice my dog is.

And then I see another person in the distance and another similar scenario takes place in my mind.

It is so far from the reality of what I'm really like, but it happens all the time.

I also am a bit like a Jekyll and Hyde character, I can flip at the slightest bit of stress and scream abuse I don't mean at someone, then the next second feel as calm as anything.

For example, I had stepped onto a zebra crossing and a car went across it without stopping. OK that will get most of us angry, but I went from being as calm as anything, to shouting very very loudly (so that most people in a 1/4 mile radius probably heard) "it!!!8217;s a zebra crossing you stupid **** idiot you!!!8217;re supposed to **** stop" Then by the time I was over the crossing I was as calm as anything again (while a load of passersby had stopped and were staring at me).

And while I don't care if others choose to swear, I try not to (unless I say hit my thumb with a hammer)

The trouble is, I'm a big built man with a very common and rough accent, and while I've never been violent, I do come across as very very threatening and aggressive when I'm like that.

I can control it, but only if I'm permanently concentrating on not losing it, for example a GP appointment, I will come across as calm mannered and very very friendly and everyone at my GP always s smiles and jokes with me.

But me being aware and concentrating for a short period of time, is completely different from me being in the work place where my mind is distracted with my job, and someone saying something that makes me snap.

I know if a manager was rude to me, without thinking I would be 10 times as rude back, the same if a customer was rude.

Even at home, while I have the loveliest and most understanding wife anyone could wish for, occasionally, if I'm stressed, say I've received a letter from a debt collection agency that I'm in the middle of typing a letter to, she might ask me something nice like "would you like a coffee"?

And because I'm not concentrating, and because I'm very very stressed and depressed , without thinking I will respond (loudly) along the lines of "oh for expletives sake" can!!!8217;t you see I'm busy, expletive off" and literally 10 seconds later, I'm apologising to her.

Thankfully we've been together over 30 years and we are best of friends and she knows this isn't really me, hence ignores it (but it can!!!8217;t be nice for her), but if I can be like this to her when stressed and all she!!!8217;s done is ask me if I want a coffee, imagine what I can get like if someone I don't know is rude to me.

I worry about myself for two main reasons.

1) I want to work, other health issues aside, there's no way on this planet I will hold down a job as I can no longer handle the slightest bit of stress, hence my outbursts will mean I probably won!!!8217;t last a day

2) I will end up putting myself in danger. When I flip, I'm not thinking, it wouldn't matter to me if I was shouting and swearing at say a bunch of 20 people armed with weapons, hence I'm very very likely at some point say this to the wrong people and end up being badly beaten or worse.

I am also in a lot of financial difficulty which also doesn't help my depression or my stress.

As for everything else, I don't have suicide thoughts ever, that's not to say that sometimes when another letter drops through the door, I don't sometimes wonder what's the point of living, but that's as far as it goes.

But I do find at least once a week now, I'm having such a bad day that even though I'm under the dietician, I end up thinking to myself "I can!!!8217;t work, I have no money, there's simply no point if I can!!!8217;t have some enjoyment" hence I'll go and stuff my face with stuff I shouldn't eat and drink a load of alcohol I shouldn't be drinking etc.

At the moment I feel like screaming, A permanent knot in my stomach, I feel like if I hammered a nail into my head, the steam would rush out as the pressure subsides.

The thing is, it's taken me ages to put all this into writing, I really don!!!8217;t think I could say it in person or want to talk about it in person to anyone.

I had a few experiences with counselling in my youth and I loathed them, I (possibly arrogantly) feel I know both what they are going to say and what they are going to suggest, and I kind of feel it's all claptrap (apologies to any counsellors reading this, but that is how I feel) and know it won!!!8217;t work with me, just the thought of speaking to one makes me cringe.

I also can!!!8217;t stand any sort of forced group work, I didn't like staff training that involved group work when I was fit and well, the last thing I want to do now is discuss my depression out loud in a room with other depressed people, I appreciate this may sound a bit hypocritical as I've just joined this forum, but on here, I'm both anonymous and aren't put on the spot with other people staring at me.

I!!!8217;m also not sleeping well. This is more due to pain. Back, arms, neck, knees and cramp. I!!!8217;m waking up almost every hour, hence am exhausted during the day, but my experience with sleeping tablets is, while they get me to sleep, I!!!8217;m like a stoned zombie in the daytime.

And when I!!!8217;m tired, I get stressed even more easily. Just trying to take in a page from a book can make me sleep for a couple of hours.

For years I!!!8217;ve been listening to an easy to listen to Audio book as I go to sleep, so my mind isn!!!8217;t buzzing with thoughts.

I have debt collectors hassling me all the time, I tried the charities such as Stepchange, but they can!!!8217;t stop them writing to me or make them freeze the interest, hence I have to deal with it myself

aaronlowe · 29 March 2018 at 7:59PM

I went to a meeting with DWP in which they spoke to advisers who work in Inverness. Those are advisers that work for the DWP. The Inverness DWP advisers told the Edinburgh DWP advisers that since ESA started, 100% of claims had been rejected. The Edinburgh DWP advisers were shocked. They didn't even know what was happening inside their own organisation.

Basically, it is impossible to receive ESA without going through a tribunal. Expect 9 months to a year and you will get no money to support yourself during that process. My wife is a benefits advisor and this is what happens to everyone except extreme cases. The system is designed to be broken but when you go to tribunal you have a good chance.

Iwanttobefree · 29 March 2018 at 8:17PM

BorisThomson wrote: »

I only got so far and had to give up. There's certainly no problem with your cognitive function!

The tribunal are not saying that they do not believe you, but rather that the evidence from your consultant contradicts what you say and what you have told your GP. On the basis of the evidence presented to them, their conclusion would appear reasonable.

Again I don't think you know my history. I didn't want to repeat it all in my previous post as I've said most of it 10 times before.

Both my GP and my Consultant agree 100% with me.

My GP only sent the DWP the consultant report as proof that what I said about my knee flexion was correct rather than what the assessor claimed she measured.

And as I said earlier, it's not my fault all the cuts to the NHS, hence merging GP surgeries etc meaning I got a new GP (with full access to all my health records something neither the DWP or the Tribunal has)

It was a very very rushed hearing, I was told before it started that they are behind and wont have time to give the result on the day.

In the tribunal, they were cutting across me, not giving me time to answer properly.

I was extremely exhausted before it even started and was struggling to speak properly, even their first question about which parts I wanted to base the tribunal on as I said in an earlier post, I said in a very hesitant voice "yyeeesssssss" and I said it very slowly as I was trying to think (which is hard when very tired) and was still thinking and stringing out my yessssss when she cut in and said "yes it then that makes things easy"

All the evidence from my GP totally backs up what I said, which is why I'm still regularly seeing my GP for everything and why I'm seeing someone for my depression and pain clinic etc

The Physio said that if things improve, it will be at least a year before I can walk to the beach, that's 800 meters from my house. But he stressed he wasn't saying I wouldn't have to stop or I wouldn't be in some pain, he was saying I should be able to comfortably manage to do that sort of journey with stops etc after about a year.

As the physio advice wasn't working my GP initially tried increasing my medication as that is supposed to numb part of the nerves or something and I am now seeing someone about the pain and attending a sleep clinic. At no point did I imply to the Tribunal that nothing was being done about my pain and I was simply left to it.

I sent a copy of my conclusion that I sent the Tribunal (that my Tribunal was based on) to a knowledgeable person on this forum after asking them by PM if it was OK.

They mentioned a few things I should change which I did, they also said that I easily score enough points without mentioning any of my other stuff so I left it at that.

Although I did stress to the Tribunal that as far as section 29 and 35 are concerned I want all my notes taken into account.

But what you say about my cognitive function., I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Apart from the fact that if you look at my post history you will see big gaps where I don't feel able to post, sometimes days I cant think straight to type. Most days reading say one page will tire me quite a lot. But w those days I am able, while I cant write short posts, I do write ones that are reasonably readable, and I can argue my point of view.

Now I don't want this to get taken the wrong way although I think it might by some.

I personally think, due to my work history for example I used to run a whole IT department along with 21 staff, and was responsible for all equipment etc (room full of multi million pound supercomputers), I'm not in the slightest bit fazed when dealing with people in authority.

Likewise I've been through various crap in my life (spent time in care), I've never been one to lie down and take things, I always fight my corner so to speak.

And I think this comes across in things like a Tribunal. I'm never in the slightest bit nervous for example, I've prepared mentally for them etc and am at a stage a stage where I am aware that for the next hour, I will be in full concentration mode and will not loose it etc.

The alternative would be not to do this, turn up and end up being escorted out by security which is what would have happened had I not mentally calmed my self down before hand.

Because I couldn't get anyone to represent me as I filled in the original forms myself (mentioned elsewhere in this thread), and because on the outside I look normal, and because I sent in reams of documentation, because I'm able to detail things reasonably well etc, because I'm never fazed:

Well compared to the person that was before me and the person after me, meaning zero disrespect to them, they both looked unkempt, a bit special needs. both had representation.

If those are the majority of cases they are seeing (even if they are smart and together, if they have representation) and suddenly there's this guy representing himself and has managed (over the course of 8 months) to assemble reams of documentation, well he is obviously has no problems representing himself etc etc etc

I honestly believe that was a huge negative against me, could even be argued it was some sort of discrimination in a way..

First impressions can mean a lot.

Maybe I should have put on an act?.

The simple fact is I still cannot work and am now receiving zero benefit. Their decision isn't helping me back to work, it's having the exact opposite effect, it's causing my wife to be ill for the first time in her life due to high blood pressure.

Failing the Tribunal is bad enough, but having people on here simply not understanding mental illness and calling me rude etc, well it isn't exactly helping my stress levels.

I've simply posted asking advice after others on here told me to appeal my Tribunal.

Ames · 29 March 2018 at 8:58PM

If I get time I'll try to make a detailed response to your post.

Two things jump out though.

Firstly, it seems that your medical evidence isn't as strong as you think it is. Why on earth did you send them a consultant letter that directly states that you don't have pain, and think that it supported your claim to be in so much pain it affects your mobility?

Secondly, you don't seem at all clear on what points you should qualify for and why. The example of being rude to a woman in the supermarket - what points or descriptors were you going for? Social engagement? Behaviour not suitable for a workplace?

I honestly think that you've gone to tribunal and been the same as you are here, giving far too much irrelevant information both written and verbal. The tribunal have had to sift through everything, and been faced with a lot of contradictions. Even your long posts about why you should get benefit include lots of information that suggests you don't qualify. It's not surprising that they've seized on basic facts supplied by you from doctors.

As an example you say you were claiming because of mental illness, but almost everything in your post is about your physical health problems.

I don't mean this to sound harsh, and I don't want to make you feel bad. But if no-one points these things out to you you'll just carry on making the same mistakes.

I don't know enough to say whether you can go to an upper tier tribunal. It doesn't sound like you can reapply for ESA on grounds of your condition worsening. I think your only option to get any benefits is PIP. But please, please, get help with the forms.

GotToChange · 29 March 2018 at 9:17PM

Hi there IWTBF
- just wanted to quickly say, I am (fwiw) right behind you, and your wife - who is of course going through all the c**p too. It is a nightmare system (I am stuck in it too....) that seems designed to do harm rather than good. You are showng incredible strength, which also does not help when it comes to these jobsworths; it seems that if you can stand up and string a sentence together, you are not eligibile.
Big hugs to you.

poppy12345 · 29 March 2018 at 9:35PM

Ames wrote: »

If I get time I'll try to make a detailed response to your post.

Two things jump out though.

Firstly, it seems that your medical evidence isn't as strong as you think it is. Why on earth did you send them a consultant letter that directly states that you don't have pain, and think that it supported your claim to be in so much pain it affects your mobility?

Secondly, you don't seem at all clear on what points you should qualify for and why. The example of being rude to a woman in the supermarket - what points or descriptors were you going for? Social engagement? Behaviour not suitable for a workplace?

I honestly think that you've gone to tribunal and been the same as you are here, giving far too much irrelevant information both written and verbal. The tribunal have had to sift through everything, and been faced with a lot of contradictions. Even your long posts about why you should get benefit include lots of information that suggests you don't qualify. It's not surprising that they've seized on basic facts supplied by you from doctors.

As an example you say you were claiming because of mental illness, but almost everything in your post is about your physical health problems.

I don't mean this to sound harsh, and I don't want to make you feel bad. But if no-one points these things out to you you'll just carry on making the same mistakes.

I don't know enough to say whether you can go to an upper tier tribunal. It doesn't sound like you can reapply for ESA on grounds of your condition worsening. I think your only option to get any benefits is PIP. But please, please, get help with the forms.

I totally agree with you here. The OP was given lots of advice right at the beginning when he was first found fit for work. Many people asked him what descriptor he was going for to be put into the Support Group but i don't ever remember the OP answering that question. The posts from the OP are always very long, and almost boring to read, i'm sorry if that sounds horrible but i'm only being honest here. They are never straight to the point.

Iwanttobefree · 29 March 2018 at 10:07PM

Ames wrote: »

. Why on earth did you send them a consultant letter that directly states that you don't have pain, and think that it supported your claim to be in so much pain it affects your mobility?

My original DWP assessment stated I had no problem squatting, etc and that my knees had full 120 degrees flexion.

I homed in on this in my mandatory reconsideration as proof that not everything the assessor said, as it's physically impossible for my knees to bend past around 90 degrees.

I sent a letter to my GP where I detailed the medical assessment and my comments to each section (including the bit above about my knees). She responded with a letter to them, that ended with her saying

I looked through the pages that he has printed out, informing me of the current situation, and of course I cannot prove this, as this is what the patient has noted himself.

Everything that this gentleman has put in writing seems tro be realistic and I cannot see any reason why this should not be taken into account with his current situation.

Therefore I would like to confirm that this gentlemen is not able to work at the moment and in my opinion his situation should be reviewed.

He also suffers from depression and is on many medications. Please see attached medication list.

She included the letter from mu consultant as proof that my knees only bent to 95 degrees and not the 120 degrees the medical assessor claimed.

Secondly, you don't seem at all clear on what points you should qualify for and why. The example of being rude to a woman in the supermarket - what points or descriptors were you going for? Social engagement? Behaviour not suitable for a workplace?

Both of the above, see my quote in post 113

I honestly think that you've gone to tribunal and been the same as you are here, giving far too much irrelevant information both written and verbal. The tribunal have had to sift through everything, and been faced with a lot of contradictions. Even your long posts about why you should get benefit include lots of information that suggests you don't qualify. It's not surprising that they've seized on basic facts supplied by you from doctors.

As an example you say you were claiming because of mental illness, but almost everything in your post is about your physical health problems.

I don't mean this to sound harsh, and I don't want to make you feel bad. But if no-one points these things out to you you'll just carry on making the same mistakes.

I don't know enough to say whether you can go to an upper tier tribunal. It doesn't sound like you can reapply for ESA on grounds of your condition worsening. I think your only option to get any benefits is PIP. But please, please, get help with the forms.

Thanks. You are more than likely right, but the trouble is, while I can sometimes sit and type for ages, as a lot of my posts on this thread show, I go round in circles etc. That's part of the problems I have, I do this when I talk (in fact friends who have read letters I type say I type in exactly the same way as I talk)

I filled in my original ESA form at the beginning of last year when I was in a good mood (I think I was on Tramadol at the time) and I basically said, as soon as my knee heals, I'm hoping to be able to look for work. I pointed out I was suffering from back problems, but I hoped they would be temporary.

I also mentioned briefly the other things I suffer from but didn't go into detail, including depression.

At the time I honesty thought at last I would be well enough to go to work. For the first time in decades, I could walk on my legs without them suddenly giving way or swelling up like a balloon etc.

To be honest I put little thought into it as I was really really hoping once it had healed I could go back to work.

I filled in the forms without talking to anyone including friends and family.

After this, I mentioned it to my wife, she said there's no way on this planet I can work, I cant even answer the phone or talk to strangers at the door.

Likewise the few friends I regularly see, all said the same, that I am kidding myself if I think I an well enough to go to work.

The truth of the matter is, I was on cloud nine after finally having my knees fixed (I have had problems since I was 15, and numerous operations over the years on both) and was so happy that I didn't consider any other aspect of my health when I filled in the form.

When I went to the medical assessment, my GP had been messing around with my meds and I wasn't really with it, I was smiling like a Cheshire cat, was very talkative due to this, and stressed a couple of times that I really really want to work.

And after that every time anything was bought up, it was kind of put down by the assessor.

I failed the assessment, asked for my medical review notes, and simply listed every point they had made followed by my comments on them. Some of the points bore no resemblance to whether I got ESA or not, I was simply showing how I was absolutely nothing like the person described in the assessment.

It was this letter that I sent to my GP that she then responded to.

And I also lost my mandatory reassessment.

When I started my Tribunal, all the documentation I sent to the DWP was forwarded to the Tribunal by the DWP. It was because of this, I felt I needed to clarify my points with regards to their comments on my mandatory refusal.

Following advice from this forum, I realised what a jumbled mess my over 100 pages of court papers were, hence I sent a conclusion that was read by a kind member of this site, and corrections made as per their advice before I sent it.

It wasn't until after my assessment that my GP asked me to contact a local "wellbeing" thing run by the NHS in my area, she asked me to contact them, she said she knows it's hard.

I put off contacting them for months, I had the numbers in front of my PC but kept finding excuses not to, I simply didn't know what I was going to say.

At some point in all this, I came up with the bright idea of posting under a fake name in a depression forum. When I finally started top put things in writing, it all came out, and when I re-read it back, it scared me, I looked like some kind of psycho nut job.

It wasn't until this point (this year) that I realised exactly how bad my mental health really was. And on the advice of the forum, I sent a copy to my GP (same copy also sent in my conclusion to the Tribunal).

I received a phone call within about 2 hrs of dropping off my letter from my GP surgery saying she wanted to see me.

She spoke about the pain I was still having along with my depression and said she was increasing my dosage from 60 mg to 90 mg a day (Duloxetine) and stressed that I really need to contact the wellbeing no matter how hard I find it, as they work in partnership with her.

So I finally contacted them via email, they got back to me and arranged for a 45 minute phone appointment.

They also got sent a copy of the letter I sent my GP

I wasn't really happy as I hate speaking on the phone, but prepared myself for it.

To their credit, when they phoned up the guy said he notes I don't like speaking on the phone, and asked if I was happy to have the appointment now, or would I like to arrange a face to face one in the future.

As I was on the phone and had built myself up, I said that we might as well go ahead.

It was him (wellbeing) that arranged for me to go to a Positive Pain Management workshop (course over a number of weeks, still haven't got a date) and confirming my depression scale at 18 and my anxiety scale at 13.

He also said I might benefit from Cognitive Behaviour Therapy but wanted me to go to the pain clinic first (he is a CBT therapist)

That's why I initially concentrated on my walking but kind of switched to my mental health. They are both bad, but I never realised how bad my mental health was.

Or to put it another way, I am hoping my mobility will improve, it will never be perfect, but I'm hoping that if I loose weight, get fitter etc, control my diabetes etc etc, I will be pain free enough to do at least part time work (well not pain free, but bearable).

However until my mental health improves, regardless of mobility, this is going to be the major sticking point which is why I'm now concentrating on it so much.

The reason so much of my posts have been on my mobility is for the simple reason the DWP and the Tribunal simply don't understand what I'm saying.

Taking it easy, not being nearly as mobile as I was a couple of months ago, my back pain started to improve a bit until I could walk about 100 yards without really needing to stop (but only if I don't swim and don't walk the dog every day), but this was with me being very inactive at home.

My wife was in bed for 3 days last week and I had no choice but take the dogs for a longer walk. Not as long as she took them, but I had to make two journeys of about 20 mins each.

Yes I managed it (with rests) , but yes I was in extreme agony. It's now a week latter and as I type this my back is literally throbbing with pain and is not settling down at all. (I didn't have this pain last week)

And now the short 10 min evening walks, I'm back to being in agony in about 50 meters. I still walk them for 10 minutes, but I either sit twice (and sometimes stop and lean as well) or if it's raining, I will persevere but am in indescribable pain by the time I get home.

Doing this for 10 mins once a day is completely different from doing it say 10 mins every hour or being on my feet every 30 mins or so at work, and this is what I cant get across to them.

Yesterday is a good example, I had to go on a diabetic food course, and part of it we had to stand around a table and list food into sugar content etc. I had to sit down after 5 mins, yet there was someone who clearly had mobility problems, struggled to walk with here stick but she stood the whole time.

And also the split second it finished, I was out of the door with my wife so I didn't have to speak to anyone.

One more. Tonight in Morrisons, I went with my wife even though I'm in pain as it's the Easter shop.

I'm pushing the trolley but soon regretting coming. We had three domestic arguments (although we were fine 2 mins later as she knows I don't mean it) due to me being in so much pain I didn't want to have to go back to another part of the shop and I simply wanted to go home. My pain was so bad, I did snap at her 3 times and I was rude to her and I suspect other customers were talking about me when they got home.

It's not just about mobility, pain tires me, CFS tires me, when I'm tired I snap, when I'm in pain I snap, my depression causes me to snap, I feel sick almost 24/7, I always have a mild headache (got one now) sometimes it's a full on one. It was all these things together that I was hoping section 29 or 35 applied. etc etc etc

Anyway rambling again. I can post the actual 19 page letter my GP commented on if you want, and I can post my actual conclusion I sent the appeal (but most parts are already in this thread somewhere) But my daughters due home any minute., wife's Birthday on Sunday, hence doubt I will be around until next week.

Iwanttobefree · 29 March 2018 at 10:10PM

poppy12345 wrote: »

I totally agree with you here. The OP was given lots of advice right at the beginning when he was first found fit for work. Many people asked him what descriptor he was going for to be put into the Support Group but i don't ever remember the OP answering that question. The posts from the OP are always very long, and almost boring to read, i'm sorry if that sounds horrible but i'm only being honest here. They are never straight to the point.

Yep and I appologise for my long posts , unfortunately it's a problem I have, putting any point across (see my posts in discussion time for example, always far too long) .

As I said above, my conclusion was read by a well known knowledgeable person on here after I took on board all your advice and kept it to the point. They advised a few changes which I did.

The Tribunal judge thanked me for the conclusion, and she asked me whether this tribunal was just dealing with what I'd written in the conclusion or everything else too.

It was when she asked "is it just whats written in the conclusion that you want us to deal with today" that I replied "yyyeeesssssss" as I was thinking, when she cut across and said that "yes it is then, that makes things nice and easy"

And it was at that point I stressed that when referring to section 29 and 35 I wanted the whole thing included.

Also please note that sometimes I cant face dealing with this for days or weeks at a time

The very last page oif my conclusion said

In Conclusion

The areas I believe apply to me are as follows.

Mobilising 1(a) (ii), 15 points

Initiating and completing personal action 13(c), 6 points

Coping with social engagement 16(c), 6 points

Appropriate Behaviour 17(a), 15 points.

Section 29(2)(b)

Section 35(2)(b)

I believe for all the reasons given above that I should have my ESA re-instated and put back in the Support group that I’ve been in ever since they moved me from Incapacity benefit.

And the rest of my conclusion explained why this was so, again happy to post it but don't want to bother if it's not going to be read.

And at the end of each explanation I followed with why I should get the points

For example (note bits in bold, in my actual conclusion are copy and pastes from the actual form)

1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid is normally, or could reasonably be, worn or used.

1 (a) Cannot either (i) mobilise more than 50 meters on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion or (ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 meters within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion. 15 points.

1(a)(ii) I feel I should score 15 points here as I cannot repeatedly walk 50 meters within a reasonable timescale due to significant discomfort. And both my GP and Physio state using a wheelchair is an unreasonable suggestion as it will make my symptoms worse.

Ames · 29 March 2018 at 10:22PM

I'm sorry, I'm not well at the moment and couldn't get to the end of your post.

You really need to let go of the idea that ESA is about whether or not you can work. Every doctor in the country could write you a letter saying they don't think you can work and it would be pointless. ESA is about meeting the criteria for ESA. You need evidence to support which points, and which support group descriptor, you meet. Your doctor's letter seems to be saying she doesn't think you can work - but the reasoning is not only not related to ESA, it's based on 'Iwanttobefree told me that...' So it's useless for ESA.

Also concentrating on things that the assessor got wrong isn't going to get you anywhere when it's just done because it's a matter of principle.

Being really blunt here - you're just going to p!ss off a decision maker or tribunal member when you're writing pages and pages of stuff that's got nothing to do with how and why you qualify for ESA. And if hidden somewhere in the middle of it all is something vitally important, they're likely to miss it.

I think you need to see CAB. If your fit notes didn't mention mental illness and you didn't include it on the list of illnesses on your application forms, then it might be possible to reapply. I don't know for sure, but I think it's your only chance.

You need to learn how to write concisely and to the point. And get a trained benefit adviser to check anything you send to the DWP in future.

Work capability assessment, I scored 0 points.

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