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misswoosie
Posts: 72 Forumite
We're in the process of buying a home which has a conservatory on the back if the kitchen.
According to the vendor,the current conservatory was built in 2015 and replaced an older conservatory.
The vendor didn't declare that the house had been extended on the property information form.. Eventually they produced a guarantee for the conservatory but when we asked about building regs we danced around for a couple of weeks and now the vendors solicitor is saying that they've asked the vendor the questions regarding the criteria for conservatories to be exempt from building regs and they say that the conservatory meets all of those requirements.
From https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/10/conservatories/3
conservatories are normally exempt from building regulations when:
They are built at ground level and are less than 30 square metres in floor area.
The conservatory is separated from the house by external quality walls, doors or windows.
There should be an independent heating system with separate temperature and on/off controls.
Glazing and any fixed electrical installations comply with the applicable building regulations requirements (see below).
Our understanding of this is that the conservatory needs to be separated from the kitchen by an external quality door and this isn't the case.
Additionally, the heating system is a radiator connected to the main combi system although it does have a TRV, but if you just wanted to heat the conservatory then you would have to go round the whole house and turn off all the other radiators, so I'm not sure if the heating requirement is met.
Not too bothered about the heating element as we could get around that, but ,apart from the fact that building regs haven't been met and the future hassle that might bring, we're concerned that it will be colder than the rest of the house and it can't be closed off.
We'd asked for a reduction in price of £800 towards the cost of fitting UPVC patio doors.
Interested to know if people feel we're correct in our interpretation of the exemption reg's.
According to the vendor,the current conservatory was built in 2015 and replaced an older conservatory.
The vendor didn't declare that the house had been extended on the property information form.. Eventually they produced a guarantee for the conservatory but when we asked about building regs we danced around for a couple of weeks and now the vendors solicitor is saying that they've asked the vendor the questions regarding the criteria for conservatories to be exempt from building regs and they say that the conservatory meets all of those requirements.
From https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/10/conservatories/3
conservatories are normally exempt from building regulations when:
They are built at ground level and are less than 30 square metres in floor area.
The conservatory is separated from the house by external quality walls, doors or windows.
There should be an independent heating system with separate temperature and on/off controls.
Glazing and any fixed electrical installations comply with the applicable building regulations requirements (see below).
Our understanding of this is that the conservatory needs to be separated from the kitchen by an external quality door and this isn't the case.
Additionally, the heating system is a radiator connected to the main combi system although it does have a TRV, but if you just wanted to heat the conservatory then you would have to go round the whole house and turn off all the other radiators, so I'm not sure if the heating requirement is met.
Not too bothered about the heating element as we could get around that, but ,apart from the fact that building regs haven't been met and the future hassle that might bring, we're concerned that it will be colder than the rest of the house and it can't be closed off.
We'd asked for a reduction in price of £800 towards the cost of fitting UPVC patio doors.
Interested to know if people feel we're correct in our interpretation of the exemption reg's.
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Comments
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You are right.0
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However, bear in mind that it's possible you could lose this house if the seller says no and you've given them an ultimatum. Think carefully before you say anything rash ... at the end of the day the building is what it is. The council are not going to be interested in enforcing lack of building regs on a conservatory. Would you actually want the external grade door separating it, or is it nicer without?
Just because something does not have the correct paperwork doesn't mean it isn't perfectly fine to live in.0 -
We'd asked for a reduction in price of £800 towards the cost of fitting UPVC patio doors.
Potentially reasonable, though the vendor may well say you could clearly see it was a conservatory without any doors to seperate it and they had marketed it at a price (and accepted that offer) given that issue was known.0 -
HouseBuyer77 wrote: »Potentially reasonable, though the vendor may well say you could clearly see it was a conservatory without any doors to seperate it and they had marketed it at a price (and accepted that offer) given that issue was known.
This is true, however we didn't think about building regs at the time as the vendor described the conservatory as a dining room. You don't get the full information about the property until the property information form is provided and it was when the vendor failed to mention that the house had been extended and building regs weren't produced that we started thinking about the structures construction, realised it wasn't a cavity wall etc and looked at the building regs. The structure has a completely solid full height wall along one side ,the other side has a wall with 2 large windows in it and there are french doors at the garden end.
"we're concerned that it will be colder than the rest of the house and it can't be closed off"However, bear in mind that it's possible you could lose this house if the seller says no and you've given them an ultimatum. Think carefully before you say anything rash ... at the end of the day the building is what it is. The council are not going to be interested in enforcing lack of building regs on a conservatory. Would you actually want the external grade door separating it, or is it nicer without?
Just because something does not have the correct paperwork doesn't mean it isn't perfectly fine to live in.
it would be better without if the structure was built to building regs standards! Having lived in a huse with a conservatory that couldn't be closed off I know how cold it can be. The vendor may walk away and we understand that, but the house has been on the market for approaching a year with no offers until ours and we're cash buyers without anything to sell. Looking at the most recent sold prices in the same development I think we're paying a fair price.
Would a lender be concerned about the lack of building regs?
Our solicitor has just sent us a copy of the building regs that I've just posted above. At the moment the vendors not even prepared to admit that it doesn't meet the regs. Additionally there's a clause in the deeds that says consent has to be sought for any extensions to the property and there's no evidence of that either.0 -
We had the exact same situation with a house we purchased. We had to write a letter to our proposed lender to assure them we would install doors on completion. Our solicitor telephoned me to advise that we didn't actually need to do it but she needed the letter from us, only time we spoke on phone everything else she obv put in writing to us. Our lender never checked and we are with another lender now anyway, who never asked any questions about building regs when we remortgaged. We couldn't decide if we wanted the doors up or not, nicer space without versus whole hot/cold thing of conservatories. Bought some very good quality thick curtains secondhand off eBay for £30 and have never installed the doors. Amazing temperature difference the curtains hold between the rooms. If you're very keen on the house i wouldn't both losing it over £800 doors in the grand scheme of things.0
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Ask the vendor if they kept the original doors, if it was only put on in 2015. I'm doing so with my conservatory that I am currently having built. I'm taking the doors out, but keeping them in my garage, just in case of future sale or building regs issues. The heating issue would be more on my mind. To be classed as a conservatory, it should have it's own standalone heating system...0
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Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons here ... If it has one solid wall is it still a conservatory? There is a certain % of glass to make it qualify for building regs exemption, as well as the heating and separate door issue.
If the seller has built this in the place of another conservatory, then have they actually 'extended' the property?
However, as I said before... Think carefully about how to get over this. If the discount is to offset the cost of installing doors, and this will make it your perfect home then that's great, go ahead. But if the lack of paperwork is the problem, a discount won't solve this.0 -
We had the exact same situation with a house we purchased. We had to write a letter to our proposed lender to assure them we would install doors on completion. Our solicitor telephoned me to advise that we didn't actually need to do it but she needed the letter from us, only time we spoke on phone everything else she obv put in writing to us. Our lender never checked and we are with another lender now anyway, who never asked any questions about building regs when we remortgaged. We couldn't decide if we wanted the doors up or not, nicer space without versus whole hot/cold thing of conservatories. Bought some very good quality thick curtains secondhand off eBay for £30 and have never installed the doors. Amazing temperature difference the curtains hold between the rooms. If you're very keen on the house i wouldn't both losing it over £800 doors in the grand scheme of things.
Yes, we liked it open, that was until we got our thinking heads on.Obviously it was winter when we viewed the house and it didn't feel cold (and I'm a cold fish) and don't think the heating was on.Useful info in case we find we can get a mortgage in the future. Lived abroad for 5 years till 2 years ago plus earning below the threshold for anyone to lend.
Well unless they're on the loft they haven't got them! The house is very small and has no garage. I think the previous ,not the current, owners put the original conservatory on. What are you putting in for heating? A hardwired high efficiency electric panel heater or something similar?Ask the vendor if they kept the original doors, if it was only put on in 2015. I'm doing so with my conservatory that I am currently having built. I'm taking the doors out, but keeping them in my garage, just in case of future sale or building regs issues. The heating issue would be more on my mind. To be classed as a conservatory, it should have it's own standalone heating system...Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons here ... If it has one solid wall is it still a conservatory? There is a certain % of glass to make it qualify for building regs exemption, as well as the heating and separate door issue.
If the seller has built this in the place of another conservatory, then have they actually 'extended' the property?
However, as I said before... Think carefully about how to get over this. If the discount is to offset the cost of installing doors, and this will make it your perfect home then that's great, go ahead. But if the lack of paperwork is the problem, a discount won't solve this.
That thought has crossed my mind. So if doesn't have the specified % of glass it's not a conservatory and should meet building regs ie insulation etc etc etc. The plan from Land Registry doesn't show the conservatory so someone has added it at since the house was built but I see what you're saying. It should've been picked up by their solicitor when they bought it. I guess an idemnity policy could cover that. I assume that (as long as it's a conservatory) with the doors on we could get retrospective building regs. If it's not a conservatory then it's going to cost a fair amount and a lot of upheaval to bring it up to building regs assuming there's no insulation in it. The roof is a bluey (coated?) plastic.I'm off to look at how much glass a conservatory needs to have!0 -
If the doors are in place, it is *exempt* from building regulations. (Provided it is within size restrictions)
No building regulations requirement = no certificate needed = no indemnity needed.
The doors are the main issue. People are starting to complicate this! If you think it is a conservatory, then it is a conservatory. It's only the lack of doors that make it an extension and therefore regs required.
It shouldn't be an extension as far as building control is concerned; conservatories are outbuildings - as long as the doors are there (and you aren't attempting to heat the entire town via your central heating and a polycarb roof)Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
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of course we won't need to get retrospective building regs if doors are in place.Thanks for that!0
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