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County Court Claim from CEL

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Dartforddad
Dartforddad Posts: 31 Forumite
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edited 7 October 2018 at 8:50PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
[FONT=&quot]Hi[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I have read the newbie section but I didn't see anything that correctly relates to the situation I have. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I'm feeling really bad as the CC form has scared the person who received it and they are quite a nervous person. We had originally appealed to CEL and to POPLA and both were rejected. After the initial flurry of correspondence we actually never heard anything for over a year so had assumed it had gone away.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We have now received a Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton. It actually looked fake at first as the images were very blurred and it was only signed as Civil Enforcement Limited, but it does have the correct forms and is on moneyclaim.gov.uk[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In the original POPLA response from CEL, I was actually surprised how detailed it was with photographs of the signage, APNR camera shots, copies of the ticket machine log, etc[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The details are:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Driver parked in Debenhams car park in Guildford on the 20th November 2016.[/FONT]
    1. [FONT=&quot]They arrived at 10:12;[/FONT]
    2. [FONT=&quot]and bought a 1-hour parking ticket at 10:23;[/FONT]
    3. [FONT=&quot]that ticket expired at 11:23;[/FONT]
    4. [FONT=&quot]at 11:46, they bought another hour’s parking;[/FONT]
    5. [FONT=&quot]and left at 12:54[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now their notice states that all parking has to be paid prior (so they say you cannot top up). I do wonder what happens if you drive out and back in as there are no notices of no return. The exact wording they use is:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"If you (a) do not pay within 10 minutes of arrival; or (b) overstay the purchased parking time; or (c) do not enter your full, exact registration number when making your payment, you agree to pay the standard fee of £100 per day to Civil Enforcement Ltd"[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The original ticket was £100 reduced to £60 if paid early.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The wording on the Claim Form is:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Particular of Claim[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Claim for monies relating to a Parking Charge for parking in a private car park managed by the Claiments in breachof the terms + conditions (T+Cs). Drivers are allowed to park in accordance with the T+Cs of use. ANPR camera and/or manual patrols are usedto monitor vehicles entering + exiting the site. Debt + damages claim the sum of 236.00[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Violation date : 20/11/2016[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Time in : 10:12[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Time Out : 12:54[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Then the PCN Reference[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Registration no[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Car Park :-Debenhams Guilford[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Total due - 236.00[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](ref: their website address or Tel. 01158225020)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Claimant claims the sum of 271.02 for the monies relating to the parking charge per above including 30.02 interest pursuant to s.69 of the County Court Act 1984[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rate 8% pa from dates above to 28/09/18[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Same rate to Judgement or (sooner) payment Daily rate to judgement - 0.05[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Total Debt and interest due - 271.02[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Court fee : £25[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Legal representative costs : £50[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]So a total of £346.02[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Now they actually issued the notice after 14 days (which is in the guidelines as I understand) so the original appeal was that it was outside of the guidelines plus there was no photographs, just a demand to pay. I felt I let my daughter down here as they have used her appeal in the POPLA statement. Maybe I should of put without prejudice on the letter.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Now there was a period where we heard nothing and then another company called ZZPS wrote twice with more charges added threatening to pass this this to QDR Solicitors.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Its all been lots of bullying letters and threats but I feel I have let the person down.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I'm really not sure what to do next as they work as a school teacher and would not like or enjoy a day in court (or getting the time off) and all the way through they keep quoting ParkinyEye V Beavis [/FONT]
«134

Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,640 Forumite
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    What is the Date of Issue on the Claim Form?

    You would be wise to edit your post to avoid giving out the identity of the driver.

    For example, perhaps the paragraph starting "The details are:..." would be better something like:
    The details are:

    The driver parked in Debenhams car park in Guildford on the 20th November 2016.
    1. The driver arrived at 10:12;
    2. and bought a 1-hour parking ticket at 10:23;
    3. that ticket expired at 11:23;
    4. at 11:46, the driver bought another hour’s parking;
    5. and left at 12:54

    Please review and adjust the rest of your post similarly.
  • Dartforddad
    Dartforddad Posts: 31 Forumite
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    Done


    I made a error right at the start of this on the original appeal in the wording and thats been used against us (I'm no legal expert just want to see things done fairly)


    The date is 1st of October (was received on Friday the 5th October)


    I have logged an acknowledgment and said we are disputing.
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,640 Forumite
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    With a Claim Issue Date of 1st October, and having done the AoS in a timely manner, you have until until 4pm on Monday 5th November 2018 to file your Defence.

    Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:

    1) Print your Defence.
    2) Sign it and date it.
    3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
  • Dartforddad
    Dartforddad Posts: 31 Forumite
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    Thanks so far


    The mistake I made at the beginning before I found this site was as the original PCN was issued after the 14 day period I used this as a defence but worded it to say


    My vehicle was parked at Debenhams for the times stated in the penalty charge however I
    provided a ticket which was clearly displayed in my car for the full amount payable for the time at
    which I was parked.


    and had a name at the bottom of the letter


    They highlighted both of these in their POPLA response as a reason that Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 did not apply.


    I'm all very new to this so would there be a standard response to use ?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,686 Forumite
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    edited 7 October 2018 at 10:11PM
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    the time at which I was parked.
    Blew it!

    They are right to have pointed that mistake out at POPLA - the driver mucked it up & chucked the entire point in the bin. You can't respond to that. The POFA is not relevant to you now, you lost that whole defence point.

    Never mind. You will not being paying £350, and will likely pay nothing at all.
    I'm really not sure what to do next as they work as a school teacher and would not like or enjoy a day in court (or getting the time off) and all the way through they keep quoting ParkinyEye V Beavis
    There will probably be no hearing, as CEL are generally still discontinuing before the hearing, in cases where they are trying to scam £350-odd from a £100 'PCN'!

    The Defendant defends the same as any other person with a CEL claim except they cannot use the POFA and must admit they were the driver.

    Same as any similar thread, search* Civil Enforcement defence driver true and I reckon you will find a post with a defence to copy (no looking at ones older than the post 6 months, too old).




    *advanced search, change to SHOW RESULTS AS POSTS & put the bold words in
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Dartforddad
    Dartforddad Posts: 31 Forumite
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    OK, i'm working through the various posts.They do seem to vary but I understand particulars do vary.


    As I have to work in Guildford on business I actually visited the site after the POPLA response and took some pictures of the signage. Is it worth sharing this for comment. There is as very interesting note I found on the entrance to Debenhams which is actually the most likely place to see anything as its the only entrance and exit to the car park (unless you walk up the vehicle slope, which is not a good idea)


    On the POPLA response it also said the option of ringing the helpline was not taken, but what use is that in an underground carpark, even if you managed to read the sign.


    Also, a Letter before Court Action with their statement was sent back in December 2017. Nothing happened for a few months and then the ZZPS letters arrived followed by QDR Solicitors. Is that normal and fair. It just seems to be more of the bullying and scaremongering approach. I say this with my tongue in cheek, are that actually following correct procedure.
    There was a LBCA sent again in September 2018.
  • Ezisola
    Ezisola Posts: 66 Forumite
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    ChatwithJacqs wrote: »
    But now what shall I do!?


    Read the NEWBIES sticky and then create your own thread
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,640 Forumite
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    ChatwithJacqs wrote: »
    But now what shall I do!?
    The best thing to do is read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to better understand the game you are now caught up in.

    Then if you still have further questions please start a new thread.

    Trying to progrees two different issues with two different people in one thread can only lead to confusion.

    Can I please also ask that you delete your post from this thread for that same reason?

    Thanks.
  • ChatwithJacqs
    ChatwithJacqs Posts: 57 Forumite
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    KeithP wrote: »
    The best thing to do is read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to better understand the game you are now caught up in.

    Then if you still have further questions please start a new thread.

    Trying to progrees two different issues with two different people in one thread can only lead to confusion.

    Can I please also ask that you delete your post from this thread for that same reason?

    Thanks.

    How do I start a thread pls?
    I’m sure there is a button saying new thread but I can’t
    see it.
    Sorry!
    Jacqs
    :rolleyes:
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
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    Its on the main page
    Dont use a phone to navigate. Desktop browser needed.
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