My sister and her debts

stockmarket-diva · 12 August 2005 at 7:14PM

I don't quite know what to do with this one and there probably isn't an answer because basically my sister doesn't seem to want to be helped. But i'll start from the beginning where I became involved. I think she has a problem with shopping and spending money but equally I think she has lied to me and I find that hard to deal with too.

18months ago my sister started telling me about how worried she was about some loans and credit cards she had. It turned out that she had accumulated about £50,000 in debt and had gone to one of the debt companies advertised on t.v. This was costing quite a large monthly payment but would also take 15 years to pay off. Her mortage was about £125,000 on a £195,000 house which has probably gained value to about £215,000. She also had credit cards and overdrafts amounting to £15,000. She was very worried, she thought they might lose their house and I couldn't bear it because she also has 2 small children. Her husband works as a Police Officer and she works part time in a bank.

I decided to help as best I could. I advised her to do a remortgage on her house to reduce her monthly payments. I also suggested she see how much it would cost to redeem the large loan (I thought I would pay it off for her and she pay me back). However, it would appear that the loan company would charge her an extra £20,000 in interest to do so. I agonised over this for a week or so. I imagined that her poor children were going to become almost destitute and that it would last for 15 years. My best course of action was going to be to loan her the money to clear the credit cards and overdraft. I could charge her a monthly payment that would give them a little extra money each month.

I also encouraged her to start an ironing business which she is still doing (although she put her rates up astronomically and has lost a few customers, me included).

The loan I made to her would cost £150 a month and would take 11 years to pay. It shocked me though that as soon as I loaned her the money, she booked a holidlay to Cyprus. She also booked Eurodisney, had her garden landscaped, booked a skiing holiday and bought a car. I didn't want to say too much because I was scared that she would not tell me again if there was a problem and my money would then be at risk. She booked another holiday last summer which I know must have cost about £3000 and I was really mad at this point. However, she was still paying me the monthly amount.

Then she seemed to be sensible and bought a trailer tent which would mean they could have cheaper holidays. Well, she is on one of those holidays now and just before they went she told me she had bought another car!!! They have 2 cars.

I am now horrified. She has either lied to me originally about the debt problems ( I was awarded a large amount of money for a car accident I was involved in and I think she thought I would give her the money rather than loan it) or she is slowly digging herself into more and more debt.

I don't know how to approach this. I've told my Father now and he is so worried about it all but says he will "have a go at her" when she comes back from France. Of course that won't solve the problem.

How on earth deal with this. I have included this site in our conversations a couple of times in the hope that she will take some notice. How on earth do I ask her for my money back? She will take offence and then I will have no relationship with her I am sure. She has always been "favourite daughter" and I doubt I'll get any support from my parent.s

This all makes me sound really weak and I'm not, I am in fact the stronger one of the family but I hate to think that a member of my own family can take me for a ride like this.

Bossyboots · 12 August 2005 at 7:27PM

No you are not weak. It is difficult to stand up for yourself against family. I was 42 before my brother stopped bullying me and that was because I challenged him over something in public and stood my ground in the face of his arguments. I now look back and ask myself why I didn't do it before, but the truth is you do what is necessary to keep the peace and, as you have pinpointed, your relationships with other members of your family. The challenge was about money he owed me. I would consider myself the strongest in our family and I still struggled with this.

I don't know which of your suppositions is right, whether you are being taken for a ride or your sister is simply racking up debts.

Regrettably I think the former. My understanding is that police officers are not allowed debts, so his job is at risk if they are in difficulties. I am not sure how accurate that is, but I think there are a couple of officers on these boards and hopefully they will clarify that bit.

I wonder whether your sister feels that you have been selfish with the money you were awarded and that what you gave her she just sees as her dues. Her paying you back gradually tends to contradict that but none of her behaviour is entirely rational. My brother always seemed to think it was okay to owe me money (we join forces for Christmas presents and birthdays if people want something more expensive than one family's budget and that is what he was not paying back) because his perception was that I could afford to be without the money whereas he couldn't.

Could they have come into money from some other source? They might feel that this is their secret and their money. After all you have your own money.

These are only suggestions based on what you have put, and my own experience.

I am not sure of the best way of dealing with this. I think you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I have to go now but will try and post back with some constructive suggestions later, just wanted you to know you are not alone.

Ember999 · 12 August 2005 at 7:30PM

stockmarket-diva wrote:

I don't quite know what to do with this one and there probably isn't an answer because basically my sister doesn't seem to want to be helped. But i'll start from the beginning where I became involved. I think she has a problem with shopping and spending money but equally I think she has lied to me and I find that hard to deal with too.

18months ago my sister started telling me about how worried she was about some loans and credit cards she had. It turned out that she had accumulated about £50,000 in debt and had gone to one of the debt companies advertised on t.v. This was costing quite a large monthly payment but would also take 15 years to pay off. Her mortage was about £125,000 on a £195,000 house which has probably gained value to about £215,000. She also had credit cards and overdrafts amounting to £15,000. She was very worried, she thought they might lose their house and I couldn't bear it because she also has 2 small children. Her husband works as a Police Officer and she works part time in a bank.

I decided to help as best I could. I advised her to do a remortgage on her house to reduce her monthly payments. I also suggested she see how much it would cost to redeem the large loan (I thought I would pay it off for her and she pay me back). However, it would appear that the loan company would charge her an extra £20,000 in interest to do so. I agonised over this for a week or so. I imagined that her poor children were going to become almost destitute and that it would last for 15 years. My best course of action was going to be to loan her the money to clear the credit cards and overdraft. I could charge her a monthly payment that would give them a little extra money each month.

I also encouraged her to start an ironing business which she is still doing (although she put her rates up astronomically and has lost a few customers, me included).

The loan I made to her would cost £150 a month and would take 11 years to pay. It shocked me though that as soon as I loaned her the money, she booked a holidlay to Cyprus. She also booked Eurodisney, had her garden landscaped, booked a skiing holiday and bought a car. I didn't want to say too much because I was scared that she would not tell me again if there was a problem and my money would then be at risk. She booked another holiday last summer which I know must have cost about £3000 and I was really mad at this point. However, she was still paying me the monthly amount.

Then she seemed to be sensible and bought a trailer tent which would mean they could have cheaper holidays. Well, she is on one of those holidays now and just before they went she told me she had bought another car!!! They have 2 cars.

I am now horrified. She has either lied to me originally about the debt problems ( I was awarded a large amount of money for a car accident I was involved in and I think she thought I would give her the money rather than loan it) or she is slowly digging herself into more and more debt.

I don't know how to approach this. I've told my Father now and he is so worried about it all but says he will "have a go at her" when she comes back from France. Of course that won't solve the problem.

How on earth deal with this. I have included this site in our conversations a couple of times in the hope that she will take some notice. How on earth do I ask her for my money back? She will take offence and then I will have no relationship with her I am sure. She has always been "favourite daughter" and I doubt I'll get any support from my parent.s

This all makes me sound really weak and I'm not, I am in fact the stronger one of the family but I hate to think that a member of my own family can take me for a ride like this.

Just a bit of advice for your sister, sorry I can't help with the mess she seems to have got herself into, but one has to say, she has a fantastic sister for being so thoughtful in helping her and in loaning her a large amount of money.

Word of warning to pass on though....

Her husband is a Police Officer, debt in the Police Force is frowned upon heavily! It can lead to disciplinary action and eventually dismissal! Bringing the forces name into disrepute and all that....

You can maybe suggest her husband has a chat with the welfare officer at work. They may be able to arrange a debt management plan that would enable them to avoid reposession of their home and also bankruptcy. I would advice getting help before creditors start contacting the Police, which they will if the debts are defaulted. It's got very serious consequences for him at work.

Take care,

Ember xx

mountainofdebt · 12 August 2005 at 7:37PM

Don't know if this is still the case but I used to work for a bank and going overdrawn was also frowned upon (a report used to go from your banking branch to your personal manager if you did!)

Your sister may be getting around this (as I did!!!) by opening a bank account with a different bank and then transferring her salary into that one.

PS Also mean to ask - have you got anything in writing about this loan?

jazzyjustlaw · 12 August 2005 at 11:38PM

It sounds to me that she is not in debt to the extent she claimed previously. You need to find out. How much did you lend her and have you got proof. You could ask for the whole lot back if she lied to you and said that she got the money under false pretences and you feel that this means she she pay it back immediately.

I love my sisters children so I know how you feel but you cannot be responsible for them that is your sisters job and if she doesnt provide for them because she overspends you shouldnt have to worry. Next time keep your money in your bank!

All the best

sfell · 13 August 2005 at 10:28AM

I really know how you feel about being sister no 2. Whilst I was in Uni my sister got kicked out of her boyfriends house, I offered her a place to stay in my shared flat-big mistake. She ran up a £176 mobile phone bill, stole clothes from my flat mate and took a neclace of my nana's (who died) and sold it for money for fags. I asked her to leave and when I told my parents they stated that I was unsupportive!!!!

Bit of a ramble but trying to point out that if you've tried to help-which you have, you can only do so much. You can't make her see sense, but you can help her pick up the pieces afterwards. Good luck!

lswwong · 13 August 2005 at 11:40AM

Hey Diva!

My older sister (my only sibling) is just the same. I won't go into the full history but let's say the only difference between mine and yours is that mine has separated from her husband and they have no children.

I just want to say that you have done MUCH MORE and beyond duty for your sister. You are an absolute saint!! (I was shocked that your accident compensation money was involved .... that was for you and your recovery. You are too good!)

Sometimes stubborn people only see themselves and their own needs. There will come a point when friends and family will have to stop helping. Hard, though it is, I suppose that's tough love.

I know it is shocking for me to suggest, and I hope it will not offend you or anyone in this forum: you MUST stop bailing your sister out. Absolute nada, nothing, cold turkey etc. She must now take full responsibility for her own actions .....

Stay strong.

Love,
Lou

meanmachine_2 · 13 August 2005 at 11:57AM

Two factors at play here:

Your sister has clearly been spoilt by her family in the past

Your actions from now on might look like spite, or a desire to assume the mantel of the "favoured child".

I'm sure this isn't your motive, but that could be how your sister will spin it.

Very tricky situation lending money to family members. In fact, I don't think "lending" is ever a good idea. You rarely get the cash back.

Blood relatives tend to treat family with much less respect than they would their bank manager!

stockmarket-diva · 13 August 2005 at 12:00PM

Thank you for all your comments so far.

I'd like to point out lou that I am disgusted that she seems to think that the money I got for not being able to work and to be able to pay for operations etc should be used for her. She never said it in so many words but she did say before all this about if she won the lottery she would share it around and would I do the same.

Of course at the time you don't think about the meaning but of course in hindsight I realise what she was probably getting at.

None of this helps however and I actually think she has lied. What sort of sister would do that? She is actually an adopted sister at that which makes it worst. Unfortunately my parents think she is the best even though I know her husband has talked of how many years my parents have got left and they'll be able to get their hands on their property. How sad. I cannot even begin to tell my parents any of this. I am trying to convince my parents to get some equity from their property to enjoy themselves with because I know that it won't be looked after when it gets into my sisters hands.

Sorry to download all this, its a money site not a problem page. I just am confused as to what to do. Even though I think she lied about the amount of trouble she was in I still think she has a money spending problem. I've told my Father that we should both try to advise her along the same lines ie debt couselling etc even though he thinks he shouldn't get involved.

lswwong · 13 August 2005 at 12:29PM

Hey Diva! It's okay to download, we are all here to help one another and lend an ear.

Whatever your sister really implied about the money, your money was NOT a windfall and was compensation for something awful that happened to you. She has no right to expect any of it. Period! You must stop yourself listening or even paying attention to what she says or seemingly suggests about it. Assume total indifference!

About being less than honest, it is not so much an issue of being able to expect absolute truthfulness from a sibling at all times and in all situations. Siblings are people too, with their own problems and all. My sis and I are related by blood and yet when I look at her as a person, I would be wary about certain aspects of her character. It would be ideal to be totally trusting with one's own family but in the cold light of reality, one must face facts and act accordingly.

I think you have done the right thing by advising your parents to spend their hard-earned cash on themselves. Whether or not the inheritance issue arises, it is their money first and foremost, and entirely up to them to decide what to do with it.

Your dad must not feel that he should not get involved. A father is a father and will remain a father until the day comes when he can no longer be around for his children. I read a lovely article about a family of 4 generations sitting down to a reunion meal and the 102 year old matriach carefully picked out bones from a piece of fish for her 80 year old daughther.

On the other hand, your father might be afraid of confrontation. I know mine is ...

Seriously, the only person that can help is your sister herself. Hope that doesn't sound too harsh.

L

homersimpson_3 · 13 August 2005 at 9:15PM

presumably you got agreement in writing (large sum involved). if not, it's not the end of the world because she seems to have been paying £150 per month. ask sister to increase monthly payments because your circumstances have changed (you need to justify it). i helped you once, can you please help me approach. if she says she cannot afford to do it say you don't understand and very gently cite examples you told us. compare her situation with yours and show how she seems to be markedly better off than you. don't critcise, lecture or preach to her. you need her goodwill.

My sister and her debts

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