Electric cars

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  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    buglawton wrote: »
    So with my Aldi disabled bay example in post #2782, just due to the statistics of the moment, 6 spaces were wasted while at the same time me and other motorists were cruising round seeking out an empty space. I toured the whole car park, found a space and would estimate there were about 5 non disabled spaces free though some drivers were awaiting another car to leave a space.

    Now imagine 6 more bays were allocated for actively charging EVs only but again, due to the statistics of random demand, they're not occupied. That's a borderline full car park now overflowing.

    And again due to the stats, on another day 10 disabled drivers/mums with infants might rock up at the same moment and will be competing for 6 spaces. That's my EV analogy.

    This is the same resource allocation conundrum the NHS faces with specialist vs general hospital wards and is exactly why unisex wards were experimented with.

    Not an issue where land is cheap and car parks half empty but my observations in Berks are that supermarket car parks are very frequently absolutely full.

    If 6% of demand is EV's and 6 (out of 100) normal spaces become charging spaces then all's fine, and you don't need to worry about these doom and gloom predictions since they never come to pass in reality with regard to new technologies and the resulting changes.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    If 6% of demand is EV's and 6 (out of 100) normal spaces become charging spaces then all's fine, and you don't need to worry about these doom and gloom predictions since they never come to pass in reality with regard to new technologies and the resulting changes.
    So given that last month saw 0.8% of UK new car sales being BEVs, and the Scarborough Lidl has one charger for 85 parking spaces (=1.2% availability), then we're doing better than "fine"! We're 50% ahead of the game!
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    So given that last month saw 0.8% of UK new car sales being BEVs, and the Scarborough Lidl has one charger for 85 parking spaces (=1.2% availability), then we're doing better than "fine"! We're 50% ahead of the game!

    Yep, so no need to let our imagination get out of control. Perhaps you and Bug could watch the 3 part Southpark documentary on the invasion and takeover of Imaginationland by terrorists.

    BTW, shouldn't you be basing your calcs on PEV's not BEV's? It's always odd how your 'accidental' mistakes seem to work in favour of your latest dodgy argument.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    Yes, PHEVs could be included, but I'm not sure they help your argument. If we are including them, then it's 1.2% availability for 3.0% of new registrations. I s'pose we could say there's two spaces sharing that one charger, so 2.4%. But that's a sadface, not a smileyface, isn't it? I mean, your argument was that charger provision was not a restriction, wasn't it...?

    If we consider my nearest city (which I've mentioned before), then six of the eight main supermarkets have zero charging provision. Of the other pair, one (part of a large, new multi-tenant premium retail development) has 2 x 7kW chargers for 600 spaces in the development's shared car park. The last has a single 7kW charger for the store's own 600 space car park. I make three spaces for 1,200 cars between the two to be 0.25%.
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 14,686 Forumite
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    edited 11 November 2018 at 2:58PM
    Rollout will improve with demand, and I suspect demand isn't linear - You're more likely to have an EV within the congestion zone than outside it.

    The car park I'm in now doesn't have any, but then I don't see any EVs either. Will it never have any? I don't believe that, but the rollout here will be behind the places with higher population densities.

    At the moment EV drivers need to be careful with locations and routes wrt charging, but I bet the same was true when petrol was sold in tins. Supply will move on when demand drives it.

    Plus not all EVs need charged every time they stop; 3% EV doesn't mean 3% EV charging bay demand.
    AdrianC wrote: »
    The whole disabled-space analogy falls down on one major difference.

    NOBODY chooses to be disabled.

    The point was that on private land disabled spaces don't really mean anything yet are respected; so why wouldn't the same be true for EV charging?
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    Yes, PHEVs could be included, but I'm not sure they help your argument. If we are including them, then it's 1.2% availability for 3.0% of new registrations. I s'pose we could say there's two spaces sharing that one charger, so 2.4%. But that's a sadface, not a smileyface, isn't it? I mean, your argument was that charger provision was not a restriction, wasn't it...?

    If we consider my nearest city (which I've mentioned before), then six of the eight main supermarkets have zero charging provision. Of the other pair, one (part of a large, new multi-tenant premium retail development) has 2 x 7kW chargers for 600 spaces in the development's shared car park. The last has a single 7kW charger for the store's own 600 space car park. I make three spaces for 1,200 cars between the two to be 0.25%.

    Firstly Ade, before you go too far down this new anti-EV rabbit hole remember it's not real, it's just a fagment of Bug's imigination, and relies heavily on there being an imbalance in the proportion of charging spaces to EV's and a very full carpark.

    Regarding PHEV's, as usual I'm afraid you have your facts and arguments back to front. You say PHEV's don't help me, yet PHEV's can park in either space - ICE or EV - since if the charging space is free, they can get a top up if necessary, or if the charging spaces are full, they can park elsewhere, no harm no foul.

    On the other hand if you are seeing no charging spaces, then you can assure Bug that parking for IC vehicles remains fine, noting that the 'car parking disaster' scenario was simply created as a way to extend the previous 'nobody will be able to park if they don't have a driveway disaster' scenario.

    So before we have to resort to the Southpark solution of firing a nuclear missile through a Stargate style portal to destroy imiginationland, because it's been taken over by terrorists - or in our case car parks from hell - perhaps we can stick with reality rather than ever more silly ways to create fictionalized problems.

    Out of interest, how much longer do you think you can keep on imaginationing new problems for EV's? And aren't you worried that you might appear to look silly in doing so? ;)
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    Sure, PHEVs can park in either - which is why I didn't include them, to tip the spaces-to-sales ratio in favour of electrickery... But, no, you just had to assume I was on the negativity, didn't you? Rather than actually read and think...



    If a PHEV is charging, then that space is full for a BEV. Even if the PHEV is just taking advantage of a "preferential" space, not actually needing to charge.


    'course, a BEV could park in either, too. If there's no need to charge, then there's no need to take the charger up.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    That's a bit more realistic:

    Israel Will Ban Gasoline & Diesel Vehicles After 2030
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    Sure, PHEVs can park in either - which is why I didn't include them, to tip the spaces-to-sales ratio in favour of electrickery... But, no, you just had to assume I was on the negativity, didn't you? Rather than actually read and think...



    If a PHEV is charging, then that space is full for a BEV. Even if the PHEV is just taking advantage of a "preferential" space, not actually needing to charge.


    'course, a BEV could park in either, too. If there's no need to charge, then there's no need to take the charger up.

    So no problem then with EV's, glad you've seen the light at last.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
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    <sigh> I've never said there IS an inherent problem. Quite the opposite. But, of course, we know that you aren't looking much past the poster name, are you?

    The absolutest positions in this thread, regardless of nuance or balance or reality, are all coming from one side...
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