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  • FIRST POST
    Former MSE Penelope
    Real life MMD: Do I punish the cleaner?
    • #1
    • 28th May 10, 10:50 AM
    Real life MMD: Do I punish the cleaner? 28th May 10 at 10:50 AM
    This is a real life MMD so please bear in mind the MoneySaver in question will read your responses:

    Please give this MoneySaver the benefit of your advice...

    Do I punish the cleaner?

    While staying in a hotel in Istanbul, I came back one evening to find my entire toiletries bag, worth c.£200, missing. The manager said the cleaner had mistaken it for rubbish as I'd wrapped it in plastic bags to avoid leakage.

    They said they'd reimburse me but take the cost out her girl's wages. I don't want to pay to replace the toiletries, but feel guilty she'll lose a massive amount of her wages.

    ML note - sadly for those who will suggest 'claim on your travel insurance' it's unlikely travel insurance is a solution (or a full solution) due to the excess needed.


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    Last edited by Former MSE Wendy; 01-06-2010 at 8:56 PM.
Page 11
    • neilpost
    • By neilpost 6th Jun 10, 7:24 AM
    • 53 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    neilpost
    I assure you that I know very well the value of money, but I work very hard, as does my OH, and we have put 3 of our 4 sons through University with one still to go, and so I feel quite free to buy things which, in previous years may have seemed an indulgence.

    I don't think £30 is extravagant, but then I have never smoked, drink moderately and so I think I am entitled to spend my disposable income as I see fit.
    Originally posted by poet123
    Yes, you are entirely free to spend your money as you see fit.

    I just find it somewhat hypocrytical to be part of a Money Saving Forum, whilst you are happy to be wildly extravagent over £30 for a 250ml shower gel, and £130 for a Toiletries bag

    I'm trying hard not to be judgemental, but the MSE in me is screaming out you are wasting your money. I'm sure you can find a just as good gel for £5-10, and a bag for £20.

    Are you in favour of MP's being able to claim first class rail travel, or is this in your opinion, wasteful and excessive ? If I was being excessive, I'd perhaps want 1st class air fare/upgrade, but every time I see how expensive that is I would be shamed to my core to blow huge wads of cash on this comfort for a few hours inconvinenece.

    If I did have the above stuff, back on topic, I'd be looking after them a damn site better than the OP did with their stuff.

    --

    P.S. I work very hard too, bringing up 2 children, and my opinion is as valid as yours. I don't smoke, drink pretty moderately, though don't know why you mention this as has no bearing on anything and adds no credence to your arguement. I'm not saying you must buy your shower gel in the Pound Shop, Hoping Jo Malone, at least has some Fairtrade credentials for her stuff ?
    Last edited by neilpost; 06-06-2010 at 7:37 AM.
  • poet123
    Yes, you are entirely free to spend your money as you see fit.

    I just find it somewhat hypocrytical to be part of a Money Saving Forum, whilst you are happy to be wildly extravagent over £30 for a 250ml shower gel, and £130 for a Toiletries bag

    I'm trying hard not to be judgemental, but the MSE in me is screaming out you are wasting your money. I'm sure you can find a just as good gel for £5-10, and a bag for £20.

    Are you in favour of MP's being able to claim first class rail travel, or is this in your opinion, wasteful and excessive ? If I was being excessive, I'd perhaps want 1st class air fare/upgrade, but every time I see how expensive that is I would be shamed to my core to blow huge wads of cash on this comfort for a few hours inconvinenece.

    If I did have the above stuff, back on topic, I'd be looking after them a damn site better than the OP did with their stuff.

    --

    P.S. I work very hard too, bringing up 2 children, and my opinion is as valid as yours. I don't smoke, drink pretty moderately, though don't know why you mention this as has no bearing on anything and adds no credence to your arguement. I'm not saying you must buy your shower gel in the Pound Shop, Hoping Jo Malone, at least has some Fairtrade credentials for her stuff ?
    Originally posted by neilpost
    How is it hypocritcal? I am stating clearly what I choose to spend my money on (which was why I mentioned what I don't choose to spend my money on) I am not berating others for "perceived extravagance" whilst secretly doing the same. That would be hypocritical, perhaps you should look up the defintion.

    I use this site to save money on areas where I choose to spend my money, hence it is money saving. For example, all my Xmas 2010 gifts are safely bought and stowed in the loft. Bought in the post xmas M&S sale. I learned about Quidco here and have garnered a lot of "free" money through my internet spending, and there are lots more examples.

    So, I am quite comfortable that my MSE activities fit within the ethos of the site, and fyi I am not alone. There are quite a few threads where people ask for advice on where to get designer bags costing hundreds of pounds. They want the item but want to pay the least they can for that item, emminently sensible imo.

    With regard to the toiletries, the bag was a gift, for a significant birthday, and I buy Jo Malone via Ebay generally, or receive it as gifts because friends and family know I like it.

    I am not in favour of MP's going first class because it is not their money they are spending, a pertinent point would you not agree


    Of course your opinion is as valid as mine, but the OP did not ask for an opinion as to whether her spending was reasonable, merely whether her belongings should have been safe and secure.

    You were extremely judgmental in your first post and have continued in the same vein, to the extent that it now smacks of jealousy that others may have more disposable income and choose to spend it on what you consider to be "luxuries".

    The bottom line is what I consider reasonable spending is not what you consider reasonable spending and probably vice versa. It is a subjective judgement and one we are both entitled to make, what we should resist doing is inflictiing our own choices on others, it is rarely sucessful, completely unecessary, and often offends.
  • laurann20
    2 sides to every story
    There are 2 sides to this story.
    1. Taking something worth £200 on holiday and putting it somewhere obvious for the cleaner to see- not a great move. All my stuff I take on hols (usually just my nintendo ds & extra cash) anyone might be tempted to take, I leave in a locked suitcase when I go out, so there is no temptation to the cleaners. Or I leave things in my room safe if there is one. Cleaners are human after all and if someone just left something expensive out, think would you really not be tempted to take it?

    2. The cleaner could have lied about thinking this was rubbish and taken it to sell or for her own use. Yes, this is morally wrong, but how could you possibly prove it???

    I would say learn from the experience, forget the £200 (as you can't prove the cleaner knew about it) and if you're going to take expensive things on holiday (which I wouldn't recommend anyway!) Don't leave them in an obvious place when you go out!
  • poet123
    . Cleaners are human after all and if someone just left something expensive out, think would you really not be tempted to take it?

    !
    Originally posted by laurann20
    No. it wouldn't even enter my head.
    • freyasmum
    • By freyasmum 6th Jun 10, 5:13 PM
    • 16,731 Posts
    • 48,923 Thanks
    freyasmum
    Yes, you are entirely free to spend your money as you see fit.

    I just find it somewhat hypocrytical to be part of a Money Saving Forum, whilst you are happy to be wildly extravagent over £30 for a 250ml shower gel, and £130 for a Toiletries bag

    I'm trying hard not to be judgemental, but the MSE in me is screaming out you are wasting your money. I'm sure you can find a just as good gel for £5-10, and a bag for £20.

    Are you in favour of MP's being able to claim first class rail travel, or is this in your opinion, wasteful and excessive ? If I was being excessive, I'd perhaps want 1st class air fare/upgrade, but every time I see how expensive that is I would be shamed to my core to blow huge wads of cash on this comfort for a few hours inconvinenece.
    Originally posted by neilpost
    To me, being MSE is about saving money on the stuff I have to buy (insurances, etc), so that I have more money to spend on the stuff I want to buy. Whether that be buying cristal (just an example, I don't drink), a holiday home, nice clothes or expensive cosmetics. And, as I already pointed out, most times the more expensive lasts longer anyway and you don't have to keep reapplying/use less.

    I don't see how me wanting to buy nice things for myself equates to me wanting MPs to be swanning around in first class?! As it happens, I think they are very welcome to travel first class if they wish - providing they pay for it themselves, just as I have done with my toiletries.
    • freyasmum
    • By freyasmum 6th Jun 10, 5:31 PM
    • 16,731 Posts
    • 48,923 Thanks
    freyasmum
    Cleaners are human after all and if someone just left something expensive out, think would you really not be tempted to take it?
    Originally posted by laurann20
    Certainly not.

    I treat other peoples property with respect, is it really too much to ask for the same in return? Regardless of cost.
    • neilpost
    • By neilpost 6th Jun 10, 6:21 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    neilpost
    To me, being MSE is about saving money on the stuff I have to buy (insurances, etc), so that I have more money to spend on the stuff I want to buy. Whether that be buying cristal (just an example, I don't drink), a holiday home, nice clothes or expensive cosmetics. And, as I already pointed out, most times the more expensive lasts longer anyway and you don't have to keep reapplying/use less.

    I don't see how me wanting to buy nice things for myself equates to me wanting MPs to be swanning around in first class?! As it happens, I think they are very welcome to travel first class if they wish - providing they pay for it themselves, just as I have done with my toiletries.
    Originally posted by freyasmum
    what is MSE ? Perhaps a new thread is needed here ?

    ....there is saving money on stuff you buy, and there is best advice on value for money so you don't end up paying more for stuff than you need to, there are also whether stuff is actually any good. MSE covers all these bases. Many, many taste tests between value, own label, own label premium and branded repeatedly are demonstrated to be 'money does not equal better taste/quality/nutritional value'.

    Is a hypothetical £20,000 saving on a Mercesdes S-Class car better value for for money than buying a Honda Accord outright for £20,000.

    Depends on your opinion of value for money.

    Personally the thought of an £80,000 car an abhorrent extravagance, whereas some would argue that the Honda is spartan and cheap.

    Others who can only afford a £500 banger would think both above are totally barking mad.

    Is the £80K cost of something, really the £80K value of something.

    'Costs more equals better' - try looking up JD Power car satisfaction surveys, where Honda, Subaru, Skoda, Toyota repeatedly top the ratings with Jaguar/Lexus being the only 'Aspirational Brands' to make the top 10.
    • neilpost
    • By neilpost 6th Jun 10, 6:25 PM
    • 53 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    neilpost
    Certainly not.

    I treat other peoples property with respect, is it really too much to ask for the same in return? Regardless of cost.
    Originally posted by freyasmum
    Some (not yours) people's sniffy underlying opinions that many Housekeeping staff are likely theves is way off mark. About as likely as your binman rifleing through your recycling, so they can steal your identity and make off with ££thousands.
    • freyasmum
    • By freyasmum 6th Jun 10, 6:42 PM
    • 16,731 Posts
    • 48,923 Thanks
    freyasmum
    what is MSE ? Perhaps a new thread is needed here ?

    ....there is saving money on stuff you buy, and there is best advice on value for money so you don't end up paying more for stuff than you need to, there are also whether stuff is actually any good. MSE covers all these bases. Many, many taste tests between value, own label, own label premium and branded repeatedly are demonstrated to be 'money does not equal better taste/quality/nutritional value'.

    Is a hypothetical £20,000 saving on a Mercesdes S-Class car better value for for money than buying a Honda Accord outright for £20,000.

    Depends on your opinion of value for money.

    Personally the thought of an £80,000 car an abhorrent extravagance, whereas some would argue that the Honda is spartan and cheap.

    Others who can only afford a £500 banger would think both above are totally barking mad.

    Is the £80K cost of something, really the £80K value of something.

    'Costs more equals better' - try looking up JD Power car satisfaction surveys, where Honda, Subaru, Skoda, Toyota repeatedly top the ratings with Jaguar/Lexus being the only 'Aspirational Brands' to make the top 10.
    Originally posted by neilpost
    As I said, to me, MSE is about saving money on things that need to be bought for that I can afford to buy what I want to buy and then getting that product at the best price I can find. It stretches the pennies so that I can afford a few nice luxuries

    A hypothetical saving of £20,000 on a brand new mercedes is an amazing saving, if that's what the person buying it wants to buy. Yes, they could go and buy a car outright, but if it's not the car they want, would they enjoy it as much? Probably not, therefore a cheaper car wouldn't have as much percieved value as the more expensive one. The value of a product is what the consumer makes of it.

    I never said cost more equals better, just that, in the case of my cosmetics, the expensive products work out more value (for me) because I have to spend less time applying because they last longer. I do appreciate that that is not always the case with every single products out there, it's about finding a balance that works for you. Everyone is different, it would be quite boring if everyone was the same
    • freyasmum
    • By freyasmum 6th Jun 10, 6:44 PM
    • 16,731 Posts
    • 48,923 Thanks
    freyasmum
    Some (not yours) people's sniffy underlying opinions that many Housekeeping staff are likely theves is way off mark. About as likely as your binman rifleing through your recycling, so they can steal your identity and make off with ££thousands.
    Originally posted by neilpost
    I don't think that's quite the case. I think someone mentioned that the cleaner had perhaps taken it and the thread went off on a tangent. I certainly don't think everyone thinks that the housekeeping staff are all light fingered thieves
  • MrsE
    http://www.mulberry.com/#/storefront/c5500/4384/category/ That is similar to the one I use, then add Jo Malone shower gel, body lotion, shampoo, cleanser/toner/moisturiser./perfume and you can see it adds up.

    Of course, it is not big enough for hair straighteners/drier so they go in a carrier bag and sometimes when I get to my hotel I unpack clothes so that they do not crease, but not the toiletries until I am ready to use them, and even then I may leave the hair stuff in the bag. Sometimes, I have my matching make up bag (with similar contents to those that have been listed), in the carrier bag too, to keep them all together whilst I travel.
    Originally posted by poet123
    Its lovely

    I need this for work

    http://www.mulberry.com/#/storefront/c5488/496/category/

    I think its a birthday or xmas jobbie

    Have I told you where to get Mulberry cheap(er)?
  • MrsE
    With regard to the toiletries, the bag was a gift, for a significant birthday, and I buy Jo Malone via Ebay generally, or receive it as gifts because friends and family know I like it.
    Originally posted by poet123
    Xmas & birthdays are ideal for luxuries.

    No one wants something they normally buy themselves, presents are for stuff you would like but it seems a little extravagant.

    For example Jo Malone shower gel instead of Dove & a Mulberry toilet bag instead of a Boots one

    Or a Mulberry bag
  • MrsE
    Some (not yours) people's sniffy underlying opinions that many Housekeeping staff are likely theves is way off mark. About as likely as your binman rifleing through your recycling, so they can steal your identity and make off with ££thousands.
    Originally posted by neilpost
    I honestly wouldn't expect it to be stolen from my room.

    Hence I wouldn't dream of putting my perfume or face cream in the safe or a locked case.
  • meher
    Although I'm not not religious, for those who are, Extravagance isone of the 7 deadly sins.............................
    Originally posted by neilpost
    Is that a new religion Extravagance is not a sin; it can be vulgar though but then again it depends on the life you lead ie if you're charitable etc and your capacities. What matters to me is that if I've subscribed to being a liberal, then I need to realise that it's not me to judge what constitutes extravagance for someone else.

    I genuinely dislike it when mse'rs try to decide what is money saving for me - you don't know my capacities or principles I live by. One of my principles is to be dteached to money and possessions as practicable as possible; so I'll spend as I please and refuse to weep over loss, likewise I expect no one to weep over it as well. Am done on this one - this going round in circles is making me giddy
  • poet123
    I dont think anyone would expect toiletries to be stolen, and it would certainly not occur to me to lock them in the safe!

    Nor do I think the general consensus was that the items had been stolen, or that most housekeeping staff are lightfingered, rather the idea that if they had been stolen, it was no more acceptable for it to have happned in Turkey than it would be if it happened here. Honesty is honesty and should be expected wherever you holiday.
  • poet123
    Its lovely

    I need this for work

    http://www.mulberry.com/#/storefront/c5488/496/category/

    I think its a birthday or xmas jobbie

    Have I told you where to get Mulberry cheap(er)?
    Originally posted by MrsE
    Lovely bag, you need it do you ?I am sure that having a daughter you can be more subtle than I am able to be when "suggesting " xmas/birthday gifts. If I am not explicit (usually via my sil) then the wrong thing turns up five men need a lot of help in that direction!

    Factory shop in Somerset? I will get down there in the summer I think.
  • MrsE
    Lovely bag, you need it do you ?I am sure that having a daughter you can be more subtle than I am able to be when "suggesting " xmas/birthday gifts. If I am not explicit (usually via my sil) then the wrong thing turns up five men need a lot of help in that direction!

    Factory shop in Somerset? I will get down there in the summer I think.
    Originally posted by poet123
    Factory shop in Somerset is the best & Bicester is good too.
  • Lorac29
    Well am almost a month late with my reply, but what a great thread, it has everything! Slanging matches, abuse, racism, judgements.......highly entertaining
    Have no idea what I would do about the toiletries though! Would depend how I felt at the time ie: ripped off or full of pity.
    Sorry am not helpful, just wanted to add something
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