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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Sarah
    • By MSE Sarah 27th Nov 17, 3:54 PM
    • 195Posts
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    MSE Sarah
    Council tax discounts for ‘severe mental impairment’
    • #1
    • 27th Nov 17, 3:54 PM
    Council tax discounts for ‘severe mental impairment’ 27th Nov 17 at 3:54 PM


    Hi,

    We've written a new guide on Council tax discounts for ‘severe mental impairment’ and would appreciate your feedback.

    Please let us know if it was helpful and if there are any other tips you'd add.

    Thanks for your help!

    MSE Sarah

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Page 3
    • Mick ccaffrey
    • By Mick ccaffrey 26th Sep 18, 10:16 AM
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    Mick ccaffrey
    Help, York Council won’t accept claims without Proof of Entitlement
    I tried to claim this for my mother-in-law who suffered from dementia and lived with us for the last 10 years of her life. I provided doctors letter etc but the council insisted we provide proof that my wife received attendance allowance for caring for her. This is impossible to get after the event, she died in 2008.
    Has this situation changed now?

    Mick McCaffrey
    mjfmccaffrey@hotmail.com
    • Mick ccaffrey
    • By Mick ccaffrey 26th Sep 18, 10:19 AM
    • 4 Posts
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    Mick ccaffrey
    York council requires PROOF of entitlement
    I tried to claim this for my mother-in-law who suffered from dementia and lived with us for the last 10 years of her life. I provided doctors letter etc but the council insisted we provide proof that my wife received attendance allowance for caring for her. This is impossible to get after the event, she died in 2008.
    Has this situation changed now?

    Mick McCaffrey
    mjfmccaffrey@hotmail.com
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 26th Sep 18, 10:20 AM
    • 6,896 Posts
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    marliepanda
    I tried to claim this for my mother-in-law who suffered from dementia and lived with us for the last 10 years of her life. I provided doctors letter etc but the council insisted we provide proof that my wife received attendance allowance for caring for her. This is impossible to get after the event, she died in 2008.
    Has this situation changed now?

    Mick McCaffrey
    mjfmccaffrey@hotmail.com
    Originally posted by Mick ccaffrey
    You say lived with 'us' so I am assuming you and your wife.

    If you lived there with your wife as 2 adults, along with your MIL with dementia, there wouldn't be a discount for SMI as there are two adults. SMI is in effect a different approach to a single persons discount.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 26th Sep 18, 11:20 AM
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    CIS
    I tried to claim this for my mother-in-law who suffered from dementia and lived with us for the last 10 years of her life. I provided doctors letter etc but the council insisted we provide proof that my wife received attendance allowance for caring for her. This is impossible to get after the event, she died in 2008.
    Has this situation changed now?

    Mick McCaffrey
    Originally posted by Mick ccaffrey

    The situation has not changed, the rules (excepting for new qualifying benefits being added) are the same as they have been for many years. Actual receipt of a benefit is not required, what is required is an entitlement - proving entitlement however is almost impossible as DWP will not confirm entitlement.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • dekaspace
    • By dekaspace 28th Sep 18, 11:50 AM
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    dekaspace
    I was thinking this myself, I have a friend who has minor brain problems following a stroke, was sectioned twice and after his mum died turned to drink and drugs for a while and still now and again has a heavy drinking session when stressed and lacks that something to help himself, was messed around by DWP as well but also has some self inflicted problems due to anxiety and depression, he now gets UC as he works a few hours a week so gets housing benefit but his CT is about £50 a month and hes in huge debt. Wondering if I can get this sorted.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 28th Sep 18, 11:56 AM
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    CIS
    I was thinking this myself, I have a friend who has minor brain problems following a stroke, was sectioned twice and after his mum died turned to drink and drugs for a while and still now and again has a heavy drinking session when stressed and lacks that something to help himself, was messed around by DWP as well but also has some self inflicted problems due to anxiety and depression, he now gets UC as he works a few hours a week so gets housing benefit but his CT is about £50 a month and hes in huge debt. Wondering if I can get this sorted.
    Originally posted by dekaspace
    Possibly, if you can get the Dr to certify the SMI status as to him having a "severe impairment of intelligence and social functioning (however caused) which appears to be permanent" as well as meeting the benefit criteria.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 28th Sep 18, 12:59 PM
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    calcotti
    ..he now gets UC as he works a few hours a week so gets housing benefit but his CT is about £50 a month and hes in huge debt. Wondering if I can get this sorted.
    Originally posted by dekaspace
    If he isn't already doing so he should apply for Council Tax Reduction from his local authority to help with the Council Tax.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 28th Sep 18, 1:15 PM
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    marliepanda
    If he isn't already doing so he should apply for Council Tax Reduction from his local authority to help with the Council Tax.
    Originally posted by calcotti
    Its highly unlikely CT would be only £50 a month without CTR. Lowest bandings are usually around £100 a month.
    • dekaspace
    • By dekaspace 28th Sep 18, 1:39 PM
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    dekaspace
    All I know he gets is single person discount, and council tax benefit still makes it £50 a month, he does have seizures so has health issues but his mental health means he gets stressed out easily and lets things slide, I mentioned on another thread before he was all but offered a council flat but he had a panic attack and decided not to go and convinced himself the neighbours would be junkies, everyone would judge him same reason he hasn't got a bus pass though is entitled to one hes in denial and with severe anxiety and mental health problems which is sad as thats the reason he now and again turns to drink to clear his stress but it makes him agressive.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 28th Sep 18, 1:45 PM
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    marliepanda
    All I know he gets is single person discount, and council tax benefit still makes it £50 a month, he does have seizures so has health issues but his mental health means he gets stressed out easily and lets things slide, I mentioned on another thread before he was all but offered a council flat but he had a panic attack and decided not to go and convinced himself the neighbours would be junkies, everyone would judge him same reason he hasn't got a bus pass though is entitled to one hes in denial and with severe anxiety and mental health problems which is sad as thats the reason he now and again turns to drink to clear his stress but it makes him agressive.
    Originally posted by dekaspace
    SMI is awarded on the basis that he would have no 'say' in what his Ctax was spent on, such as in the voting for local counsellors and voting for the one who he felt would serve his needs best (whether that is followed through is another political argument)

    Its not about having mental health issues, its an impairment of intelligence such that he would have no idea what he was voting for his money to be spent on.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 28th Sep 18, 2:34 PM
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    CIS
    Its not about having mental health issues, its an impairment of intelligence such that he would have no idea what he was voting for his money to be spent on.

    Regardless of the original intention of the SMI disregard that aspect isn't a specific point under the council tax SMI criteria. It could only be considered by a Dr as part of the overall consideration as to whether or not a person has the required impairment but it isn't a make or break requirement.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • dekaspace
    • By dekaspace 28th Sep 18, 2:51 PM
    • 5,020 Posts
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    dekaspace
    SMI is awarded on the basis that he would have no 'say' in what his Ctax was spent on, such as in the voting for local counsellors and voting for the one who he felt would serve his needs best (whether that is followed through is another political argument)

    Its not about having mental health issues, its an impairment of intelligence such that he would have no idea what he was voting for his money to be spent on.
    Originally posted by marliepanda

    Thats the difficult part, he has huge debts as he can't wrap his head around the idea he has debt, on top of the £50 a month he pays £30 a month arrears, and has about £20 000 in debt from the past from a combination of after a stroke he was out of work for a while, he was victim of identity fraud from his brother but didn't get him arrested etc its a struggle to get him to pay even his basic debts as one was going to get wiped next year by debt management if he paid minimum amounts but he overspends as he forgets and lacks the capacity then has a panic attack and blocks out the world if not makes it worse as he spends money he doesn't have drinking.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 28th Sep 18, 2:56 PM
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    • 15,054 Thanks
    marliepanda
    Thats the difficult part, he has huge debts as he can't wrap his head around the idea he has debt, on top of the £50 a month he pays £30 a month arrears, and has about £20 000 in debt from the past from a combination of after a stroke he was out of work for a while, he was victim of identity fraud from his brother but didn't get him arrested etc its a struggle to get him to pay even his basic debts as one was going to get wiped next year by debt management if he paid minimum amounts but he overspends as he forgets and lacks the capacity then has a panic attack and blocks out the world if not makes it worse as he spends money he doesn't have drinking.
    Originally posted by dekaspace
    I'm not a doctor, but I would be surprised if someone got SMI for this as he clearly seems to have some control and intelligence over his actions (choosing not to get his brother in trouble etc)

    It sounds more like he needs someone to take control of his finances for him as he is not managing his money.

    Again, I am not a doctor, they worse that will happen if he applies is they say no.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 28th Sep 18, 3:03 PM
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    calcotti
    Its highly unlikely CT would be only £50 a month without CTR. Lowest bandings are usually around £100 a month.
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    I agree it would be surprisingly low if CTR was not already in place but I also though that for someone on UC with a single person discount and CTR it could be a bit high. Obviously we don't know the OP's earnings, their CT band or the rules of the local authority scheme so it seemed better to offer the advice just in case.
    • dekaspace
    • By dekaspace 28th Sep 18, 3:13 PM
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    • 4,719 Thanks
    dekaspace
    I'm not a doctor, but I would be surprised if someone got SMI for this as he clearly seems to have some control and intelligence over his actions (choosing not to get his brother in trouble etc)

    It sounds more like he needs someone to take control of his finances for him as he is not managing his money.

    Again, I am not a doctor, they worse that will happen if he applies is they say no.
    Originally posted by marliepanda

    Its a difficult one, he has a habit of wandering off and not telling people where he is, not answering his phone, has had seizures in public where he is rushed to hospital, and speaks to anyone and is easily influenced like he will approach junkies and be friendly with them and they will rob him or use his flat as a drug den, he also though not as much now punches holes in walls its very rare he has his moment of clarity most of time hes not all there.


    He already has people do pretty much everything for him, it was other people who applied for UC, council flat, benefits etc for him as he just spaces out and goes blank and if you speak to him his speech is almost always slurred.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 28th Sep 18, 4:23 PM
    • 17,728 Posts
    • 31,354 Thanks
    Ames
    Its highly unlikely CT would be only £50 a month without CTR. Lowest bandings are usually around £100 a month.
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    Mine's around £70 a month after single person discount is applied. Two bed council flat in a terrible area. That's paid over ten months, so less than that over twelve.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.
  • archived user
    You say lived with 'us' so I am assuming you and your wife.

    If you lived there with your wife as 2 adults, along with your MIL with dementia, there wouldn't be a discount for SMI as there are two adults. SMI is in effect a different approach to a single persons discount.
    Originally posted by marliepanda

    Thats not true - both my husband and myself are disregaurded because of our daughter .Our CT is reduced by 50% to £50 a month
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 29th Sep 18, 10:24 AM
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    marliepanda
    Thats not true - both my husband and myself are disregaurded because of our daughter .Our CT is reduced by 50% to £50 a month
    Originally posted by CHRISSYG
    Why are you and your husband disregarded?

    This could work if one of you is disregarded as her carer and your daughter was disregarded as SMI.

    If all three of you were disregarded then there would be no council tax at all.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 29th Sep 18, 12:40 PM
    • 11,200 Posts
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    CIS
    Thats not true - both my husband and myself are disregaurded because of our daughter .Our CT is reduced by 50% to £50 a month
    Originally posted by CHRISSYG

    A 50% discount indicates a double disregard (which is relatively unusual) - I would expect it's down to 2 adults and an adult child where the child was disregarded as SMI and both parents are disregarded carers.

    In the case that was highlighted only the MIL was disregarded but for a 50% discount each of the two other adults would also need to be disregarded. If the MIL was disregarded and only one of the two other adults then a 25% discount would apply on the basis there was still one adult who was not disregarded.

    Think of exemptions as special cases - if all occupiers are disregarded then in some cases an exemption can take over and apply. In the case of a mixed household of carers and SMI then no exemption can apply and the 50% is the highest council tax discount than can apply under S11(2)(b) of the LGFA 1992.
    Last edited by CIS; 29-09-2018 at 12:44 PM.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
  • archived user
    We are both disreguarded because we both care for her over 35 hrs a week.


    Liabilities £1,200.95


    Discounts -£600.48
    Last edited by CHRISSYG; 30-09-2018 at 4:22 PM.
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