Condensation Bedroom Windows
Options
Comments
-
Surveyor been and gone, went around the house taking readings, photos', asking what we do in certain situations, i,e closing bathroom door when taking a shower, etc all that we already do.
He was unable to comment if anything can be done, just that he has gathered all the information he needs, he then sends that information to the contractor who will contact the housing with their findings.
He's sending his bit off today, so just a matter of waiting to hear back from the housing on solutions, at least the surveyor acknowledged there is a problem.0 -
This is a very common issue. It's more problematic if you own a single skin home. If it's double skinned w/ an insulated cavity then the inner wall will remain warmer and thus the heat difference is substantially reduced, and therefore there is less condensation.
There is moisture everywhere due to evaporation (via the sink, food, when you cook, as you breathe etc) and it needs to go somewhere. When you have the windows closed, the air heats up (computer, telly, heating, cooking etc) and accumulates more moisture. Such air is also "stale" since it is not being readily replaced, so naturally it will build up and condense on any cold surfaces.
PIV systems will practically eliminate the problem. Cool air is drawn in, and the stale air is moved around/pushed out so you have a constant stream of clean, fresh air. You can install it in the attic, and be done with it. It doesn't need an inlet like an extractor fan - all it needs is a well ventilated area to pull fresh air from, and the loft is ideal since it has (by design) a constant stream of cool air flowing through it.
You will notice that this issue mostly occurs between October and March. The PIV system is only run in this period.
Don't use an extractor fan, it is usually placed along with a vent so will only keep your wet room condensation free due to most of the airflow being from the vent to the extractor fan. It is also much louder, and operates at a high RPM whereas a PIV operates at a much lower RPM.
Dehumidifiers are expensively priced, costly to run, and it will take a lot of work to setup appropriate pipework throughout the house to adequately dehumidify it.
The PIV solution overcomes all of these limitations, since air is being pushed into the house forcing stale air out wherever there are gaps/vents. It is important you don't open windows when using a PIV system to maintain good air pressure within the property. You should however leave the trickle vents open.
Hmmm...
Whether the building is single-skinned or double-skinned will make very little difference to the amount of moisture in the air or the amount that the OP is getting on the windows. (The only difference being the amount of water condensing out on the walls in the single-skinned building).
An extractor fan is much more efficient at quickly removing the huge amount of water vapour being produced in the shower room than any other method. Even if a PIV is the best answer for the rest of the house, a good extractor fan in the bathroom will stop much of the moisture getting into the rest of the house.
Dehumidifiers have their place and are very good at removing excess moisture from parts of a building where there is a source (such as a bedroom with sleeping adults).
Installing a PIV system may well help the OP, but (unless you are in the business of selling these!) they are not a panacea for all ills.0 -
If I am in the PIV business, you must be in the extractor fan trade ?Hmmm...
Whether the building is single-skinned or double-skinned will make very little difference to the amount of moisture in the air or the amount that the OP is getting on the windows. (The only difference being the amount of water condensing out on the walls in the single-skinned building).
An extractor fan is much more efficient at quickly removing the huge amount of water vapour being produced in the shower room than any other method. Even if a PIV is the best answer for the rest of the house, a good extractor fan in the bathroom will stop much of the moisture getting into the rest of the house.
Dehumidifiers have their place and are very good at removing excess moisture from parts of a building where there is a source (such as a bedroom with sleeping adults).
Installing a PIV system may well help the OP, but (unless you are in the business of selling these!) they are not a panacea for all ills.
I've been through the entire process approximately 2 years ago. We had severe damp and mould issues within our property spanning over 10 years and I finally decided to deal with it once and for all.
I too initially thought it was the bathroom, since everyone enjoyed a steamy bath, and at the time we had no extractor fan. Initially, I went for a 100m^3 100mm inline extractor, but found it taking too long. Long story short, I ended up fitting in a 150mm 450m^3/m fan and it was literally sucking out the steam as it was being generated.
The mould growth in the bathroom dropped to nill, but we still had severe mould issues in other places. My eyes moved onto the kitchen, and again I fitted another extractor fan and that reduced condensation build up in the kitchen during cooking but did not aid it much after the cooking/when the fan was turned off.
That STILL did not deal with the mould build up in landing, and in the bedrooms, until after I fitted a PIV system.
The bathroom/kitchen definitely needs it's own dedicated extraction, but it won't account for the rest of the property.
Some other things to consider:
1. Extractor fans are usually loud since they operate at much higher RPMs. PIVs are much quieter since they are low RPM. At night, I can barely hear the PIV fan, and it's right next to my room. Whereas the extractor fans can be heard from the garden!
2. Extractor fans need ample ventilation to pull air hence they are usually accommodated with a vent. Not having ample airflow will increase the effort of the fan and reduce it's lifespan.
When you have an extractor fan with a vent, if it is a standard size then it may very well draw up to 80/90% of it's air from that vent; the other 10/20% from the property which is not very efficient.
With a PIV, all windows, doors etc are closed except for trickle vents. This creates positive pressure within the property, and the air is more evenly displaced.
3. Extractor fans pull air out very quickly. So when you have the heating on, it'll quickly pull all that warm air out of the room and you'll be shivering even with the heating on!
A PIV will operate at a much lower RPM, so air is drawn in slowly, which allows it to heat up. Also, with PIVs only the area below the fan is cool, but the rest of the house retains the heat.
4. 99% of extractor fans worth their weight are inline/axial. PIV fans are centrifugal, so will have much higher pressure which is why they are so good at pushing and expelling air within the property when all doors/windows are closed.
I love my PIV (and extractor) fans! We always used to wake up in the mornings and you would have that damp stinch, and just nasty smelling stale air, not anymore. The house smells fresh, and clean (even with all the windows closed 24/7). The window condensation has dropped by 98%, and mould is completely eliminated. It absolutely works; what a god send.0 -
Thanks, you have confirmed that the PIV has its place alongside fans and other methods of controlling humidity and condensation. It was your “Don’t use an extractor fan” comment....that “sucked”!
0 -
Still taking the readings, and humidity still high even though the outside temp is higher than it has been....
0 -
I've got two rental properties that had this problem. The PIV worked beautifully in both and I thought they were well worth the investment. I don't know all the technical stuff and don't know if they would suit all situations but I found them great.0
-
But yeah, i saw the wattage and wondered if this is a costly thing to run, especially if tying up a humidistat to it!
23 watts is a tiny amount of power. If you let the fan running constantly all year, it would use about £25 of electricity. I have the same fan controlled by a remote humidistat, and it runs for up to an hour after someone has taken a long shower. We're a large family, and I hear the fan running twice a day at most. On that basis, it is costing us £2 a year in electricity.
The PIV units will cost a similar amount to run, if they don't have a heating element. I would not fit one without a heating element as you will get a cold draft from the input vent in winter.The comments I post are my personal opinion. While I try to check everything is correct before posting, I can and do make mistakes, so always try to check official information sources before relying on my posts.0 -
My tenants haven't had a problem with a cold draft, the guy who fitted it said if you position it properly it won't be a problem. If I put my hand up near it I can feel it but not standing normally.0
-
saintscouple wrote: »Well this is interesting, with a mould and condensation survey booked with the contractor for Wednesday this week i thought i would see how the readings differ with the windows closed and just relying on the trickle vents to do their job, after all that's how it's meant to be and when it gets near freezing in the winter outside, we are not going to want to have those windows open. So i closed the windows yesterday afternoon, and straight away the humidity rises and we are back to condensation on the panes, this is how it looked this morning when i woke... outer panes clear, but this was the middle pane.....
We have a top window open in every bedroom 24/7 365. If we didn't we'd have a condensation problem.Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear0 -
thepurplepixie wrote: »I've got two rental properties that had this problem. The PIV worked beautifully in both and I thought they were well worth the investment. I don't know all the technical stuff and don't know if they would suit all situations but I found them great.
I hope that the solution to our problem will be as simple as fitting one of these units, and that the housing do this. Good to hear they work in your properties, thank you23 watts is a tiny amount of power. If you let the fan running constantly all year, it would use about £25 of electricity. I have the same fan controlled by a remote humidistat, and it runs for up to an hour after someone has taken a long shower. We're a large family, and I hear the fan running twice a day at most. On that basis, it is costing us £2 a year in electricity.
The PIV units will cost a similar amount to run, if they don't have a heating element. I would not fit one without a heating element as you will get a cold draft from the input vent in winter.
That's good to know, must admit when the surveyor came round, he did describe it as a little pump, but it's reassuring to know it doesn't cost that much to run. The readings are showing there is no real difference in humidity after a shower and we have little condensation in the bathroom... toilet cistern a given of course.
If a PIV is agreed and authorised to be installed, we have little say as to if it is a system with a heating element. Perhaps one for me to research and if the benefits are there and the costs not much difference, then to state my case to the housing should the PIV be proposed. Best for all to nip this in the bud once for all, and save me keep calling on them with problems. Thank you
Interesting to know, I will look up and see how the different models operate, benefits, and costs, etc. Thank youthepurplepixie wrote: »My tenants haven't had a problem with a cold draft, the guy who fitted it said if you position it properly it won't be a problem. If I put my hand up near it I can feel it but not standing normally.
Yeah, the new windows they fitted on ours don't have a top window, just 3 panes with outer 2 opening, and trickle vents only on those outer 2 panes. So we don't have that option sadly, but the outer panes do have child locks on, or rather cat locks in our case, so we can open them a little without threat of the cats jumping out lolpeachyprice wrote: »We have a top window open in every bedroom 24/7 365. If we didn't we'd have a condensation problem.
One other thing i hadn't mentioned, but the surveyor picked up on, is the back door - it has the old 4mm glass, wooden with wooden frame, and has one of those brush-bar draught excluders fitted to the bottom to keep the draught out. The glass being as it is, is a cold spot and he demonstrated just how cold the glass it by putting your hand on it, compared to the window next to it, he said that will the next thing to rain condensation, and it's already beginning to blacken around the side of the glass where i had stripped, sanded, sealed, and repainted in the summer. So see if this comes up in his report, if not will keep an eye and if starts to mould like it did last year, will be back to reporting that one.
The housing changed the front door and all the windows this year, but said the back door isn't to be replaced till 2028... so we have all upvc apart from the back door which opens directly into the lounge, but it's the thickness of the glass on the back door which will become a problem if things remain as they are, even when the surveyor for the central heating came round, he said the 4mm double glazed glass, for btu calculations, could only considered as single glazed... and when you look at the difference in the panes in the window to the back door now.. wow... the ones in the window are like at least 3 times as thick!
one other thing, when i found this in the loft....
Would that indicate the property doesn't have cavity wall insulation?
I ask as i thought there would be evidence of the insulation bits, but i looked as far as i could and nothing. Unless they don't fill the cavity that high?
Just i find it odd that with all these grants around, that tenants cannot apply for, only owners and landlords, why this property would say have the minimum insulation (and in one part of the loft no insulation at all) so perhaps below minimum?
I'm not saying it's a cold house by all means, being mid-terrace, it can get quite warm - which perhaps with minimum insulation means our neighbours aren't retaining their heat and it's traversing along the row of 4 houses and out at the end terraces.
I checked the outside brickwork and can't see any noticeable holes filled where cavity insulation may have been added, the houses were built 19 years ago, so maybe cavity insulation boards were available back then and these houses may have them?0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 608K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173.1K Life & Family
- 247.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards