Unauthorised Transaction - Claim Declined / Natwest Won't Do Chargeback

paragon909 wrote: »

Bank and paypal can speak with each other and confirm things like location, cookies and IP address that was used. If your debit card or credit card was linked to your paypal then whoever sent the paypal gained unlawful access to your account to send(have you changed your password and security questions), Paypal will be able to see this! And can give that info to the bank who might also check it against your online banking information to see if it matches.


Maybe paypal should start using OTP for instant payments...

I thought that too, but Natwest told me today that they never contact PayPal and they can't interfere with them whatsoever. Basically said I have to deal with PayPal to solve it and Natwest won't be helping me out one bit.

I have changed my password and questions, my account is full secure now for sure. The 'fraud team' at PayPal have deemed the transaction to be legit and seem to think that at 6AM I sent $350 to a random email address located in the USA. I certainly did not, and would never send a gifted payment of that stature to anyone. They have already processed two claims and both have been declined, so I'm pretty stuck here. There's a third claim gone to a 'superior team', so I am just really hoping they can amend it for me. If not, I think I'm out of luck. Really sad to see that PayPal or Natwest are allowing this sort of activity to happen so easily.

boo_star wrote: »

NatWest have limited powers here.

They can’t just pull money back whenever they want. But their explanation is complete nonsense.

Understandable yeah. I just thought there would be some system in place for when a fraudulent transaction is made using my account details on a website/business.

I was just a bit miffed when they said they don't interfere with PayPal because they're a big business and I can only hope to solve it with them directly. However if it was a smaller business I bet they would have been happy to assist me. Just seems a bit unreasonable really. I always thought a fraudulent transaction could be investigated no matter what, but Natwest do things differently. Perhaps all banks are the same, but I read online that a chargeback can be done via your bank which is why I tried it out myself.

paragon909 wrote: »

I would update the claim as we speak. And demand to know the IP address and what location was located when the payment was authorised. Surely this is unusual activity, Being 6am is neither here nor there according to paypal, They won't see that being a factor.

Paypal wouldn't normally just allow a customer to do this, Mostly all funds now adays are held for 21 days on the receiving account, Unless they sell 1000s of stuff on Ebay etc. If it's fraud paypal normally act quite quickly on this.

Seems a rather strange figure.

I would update the claim but there isn't one on my account. The 'claim' is being done in the background by PayPal i.e. their own private investigation. All I can do right now is hope that they e-mail me back regarding the matter soon, they said they'd be doing it today but hasn't happened.

The only claim on my account is for this same case - it was an agent who today tried to open an 'item not received case' on the order, but they got half way through it and decided they couldn't finish it off as it was a friends/family option. The claim is still showing on my account as being open but it can't be viewed and simply opens an error messages when clicked.

Yeah seems odd, I sell and buy a lot using PayPal, so that may be a factor as to why they've taken the money from my account instantly. The scammer has already received the payment as it's not pending, it's fully completed.

They seem a bit reluctant to give me anything information as to why they came to the conclusion that it's not suspicious.

18cc wrote: »

I think it is important to understand (and I'm sure possibly you already know this) but there are two relationships here involved

normally if you pay for goods using a debit card then your bank can do a chargeback and will get involved if there is any fraud etc etc

however where PayPal is concerned the relationship is strictly PayPal and the bank - the bank have no interest and indeed no legal requirements to police what happens between PayPal and the customer.

that is why you have a lot less protection if you use PayPal - your bank will say 'you gave Paypal authority to debit your bank account or your card they are doing this we have done nothing wrong' and indeed they are right

i would caution anybody about paying with PayPal as the only protection you have is the PayPal buyer protection etc and you have no protection whatsoever that you would normally have if you use a credit card or debit card direct with the merchant

I would abandon talking to NatWest they are in the right here in that they have honoured all the PayPal requests your complaint is strictly with PayPal and the fact that this money has fortunately gone missing

by the way you can turn on two Factor authentication on your PayPal account I have it on mine in that they send you a text every time you log on with a code so nobody can log on to your account even if they find the password out

Thanks for your response. I see your point with regards to Natwest, and I have taken them out of the equation for this case, as clearly they are not obliged to assist me anyway.

I will certainly look into the two factor authentication. I am led to believe the sender somehow logged in using my PC, possible some sort of trojan/malware. I've never had this sort of issue though as I like to think I'm pretty tech-savvy! I have sent photos to PayPal with evidence of this after completing a full scan. The agent advised me that if I could send him photos of a full PC scan, that he could approve my case. Avast, they declined the case twice.

I phoned twice today. First guy was unhelpful and just got me off the line as quick as he could, saying there's nothing he can do, it's been declined etc.

I called again and got through to a woman, I explained the photos I had sent in and asked for documentation to prove that it wasn't unauthorised. I explained I would be using this documentation for my police report. I then explained about the agent who told me about the virus scan photos, and asked if she could view them and check they had been received. She then viewed the photos and confirmed they had them, but told me the fraud team had NOT seen the photos or used them. So now another ticket has been opened where hopefully they will see these photos... I did ask to speak to the fraud team myself, but I was informed they have no contact details and it's impossible to speak to them.

If this ticket fails, I am destined to give up on this matter. All I can do is report it to Action Fraud so it can go on file, but I know that won't get me my money back ever. So I'm down $353.50 and have little to no money to last me the rest of the month. A real tough situation to be in.