Working hours and overtime

itaylort · 22 September 2012 at 7:40PM

Hi all,
I wonder if someone could give me there take on my contract please.

My contract in connection with working hours states,

"Your normal hours of work are 35 hours per week exclusive of 1 hour for lunch, and are those required to carry out your duties to the satisfaction of the company and as necessitated by the needs of the business. The core hours are from 9am to 5 pm, mon to Friday. The working hours may be flexible when attending customers sites, but time off in lieu will be given for any work which results in you arriving home later than 6 pm on Fridays"

I am led to believe that I can be forced to work hours up to but not exceeding 48, for not extra pay or toil.

Maybe I'm naive on this but I just can't believe it, so I'm looking for different takes on this.

Thanks for any input

E

pooch · 23 September 2012 at 8:00AM

itaylort wrote: »

Hi all,
I wonder if someone could give me there take on my contract please.

My contract in connection with working hours states,

"Your normal hours of work are 35 hours per week exclusive of 1 hour for lunch, and are those required to carry out your duties to the satisfaction of the company and as necessitated by the needs of the business. The core hours are from 9am to 5 pm, mon to Friday. The working hours may be flexible when attending customers sites, but time off in lieu will be given for any work which results in you arriving home later than 6 pm on Fridays"

I am led to believe that I can be forced to work hours up to but not exceeding 48, for not extra pay or toil.

Maybe I'm naive on this but I just can't believe it, so I'm looking for different takes on this.

Thanks for any input

E

You would need to refer to the section of your contract of employment regarding your pay rather than your hours of work, if that is what you are wondering about.

Or you could clarify things directly with your employer.

CAB_Malvern_Hills_representative · 23 September 2012 at 4:06PM

itaylort wrote: »

Hi all,
I wonder if someone could give me there take on my contract please.

My contract in connection with working hours states,

"Your normal hours of work are 35 hours per week exclusive of 1 hour for lunch, and are those required to carry out your duties to the satisfaction of the company and as necessitated by the needs of the business. The core hours are from 9am to 5 pm, mon to Friday. The working hours may be flexible when attending customers sites, but time off in lieu will be given for any work which results in you arriving home later than 6 pm on Fridays"

I am led to believe that I can be forced to work hours up to but not exceeding 48, for not extra pay or toil.

Maybe I'm naive on this but I just can't believe it, so I'm looking for different takes on this.

Thanks for any input

E

Hi

When looking at the maximum working week hours are averaged out over a 17 week reference period. Your contract is slightly ambiguous in that it states that your Core hours are 35 but extra time may be needed in order to do the job which seems to be saying that they can ask you to do extra as needed to carry out your duties.

You could raise this with your employer perhaps informally and ask them whether overtime is payable over the core hours /and or whether extra pay will be provided. It may be that they just want to build in a little flexibility into the job which is understandable and have not taken care over the wording or they do indeed what you to work extra hours for no more pay or TOIL ,which is certainly what the current wording could be interpreted as and is allowed under law up to a point. The 17 week reference period is also used to arrive at the minimum wage so any additional unpaid hours up 48 must not result in the rules on national minimum wages being breached.

For further clarification suggest you discuss these issues further with:

Pay and Work Rights Helpline
Tel: 0800 917 2368

Website: http://payandworkrightscampaign.direct.gov.uk/index.html

See also Cab factsheet on Working hours :

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_factsheets.htm

itaylort · 24 September 2012 at 9:23AM

Many thanks for the replies,

Ambiguous wording I think is interpreted differently by both parties I think, as I interpret as the the core hours are flexible ie instead of 9-5 it might be 8-4. Not that the 35 hours are flexible.
My employer obviously sees it as the hours and timing is flexible up to 48 hr and as you mentioned not falling below nmw.

But does this means I am at the beck and call of my employer to work at any time of the day or night then?

E

Wywth · 24 September 2012 at 10:25AM

itaylort wrote: »

...
But does this means I am at the beck and call of my employer to work at any time of the day or night then?

E

Have you asked for clarification from your employer?
If so, what do they say?

itaylort · 24 September 2012 at 2:35PM

Hi,
They say they can make me work any amount of hours up to the 48 maximum without extra pay or toil.

The reason I'm posting is that I am truly shocked that this can be true. If it is it is, but I can't believe that it correct as I interpreted as above that my hours were 35 per week and core of 9-5. The flexibility I assumed was still 35 hours but say 6am to 2pm.

E

Wywth · 24 September 2012 at 3:34PM

itaylort wrote: »

Hi,
They say they can make me work any amount of hours up to the 48 maximum without extra pay or toil.

The reason I'm posting is that I am truly shocked that this can be true. If it is it is, but I can't believe that it correct as I interpreted as above that my hours were 35 per week and core of 9-5. The flexibility I assumed was still 35 hours but say 6am to 2pm.

E

As per your contract of employment:

Your normal hours of work are 35 hours per week exclusive of 1 hour for lunch, and are those required to carry out your duties to the satisfaction of the company and as necessitated by the needs of the business

This is quite a common type of clause in employment that is not hourly paid.

As pooch says, you need to refer to the section on how you are paid for further clarification.

Regarding flexibilty, note:

The working hours may be flexible when attending customers sites...

itaylort · 24 September 2012 at 6:15PM

Thanks again,

Renumeration

Your salary is currently£...... Per annum payable by monthly cheque/ standing order.

E

00ec25 · 24 September 2012 at 7:15PM

in one sense you have a "professional" persons contract - ie you are paid a lump sum to achieve a set of work outcomes, how long you take to do that is down to your discretion subject to 2 requirements: 1) you must be present between 9 - 5 (unless on a client site when these times may vary) and 2) you must remain within the 48 hour working time rule.
ie you are not paid by the hour and you are not expected to be a clock watcher looking to claim overtime at every conceivable opportunity

that said i have never seen a contract quite so ambiguous nor a company that apparently applies its idea of "up to 48 hours" so blatantly

don't know what to add other than find another job??

itaylort · 25 September 2012 at 8:44AM

I think I'm painting them in a dark light and maybe doing them an injustice by doing so, as they do pay toil for hours past 5 pm and before 9am as a gesture and not by contract.
My initial question was to ascertain if it was in fact true that they could make me work for no toil or extra pay over the 35

E

bris · 25 September 2012 at 10:35AM

Yes they can, although your normal working hours are 35, you are contracted to 48 when the need arises. Because it meets the national minimum wage they are ok to do this.

Working hours and overtime

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