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POPLA Decisions

1151152154156157455

Comments

  • DJBenz
    DJBenz Posts: 52 Forumite
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    edited 12 November 2014 at 2:10PM
    It is with great pleasure, and a huge, Cheshire-cat like grin, that I can post this POPLA win against Highview Parking. Thanks to the people that made this possible with their help and guidance:
    Case Number: 2922744008

    10 November 2014

    Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination

    As the appellant does not admit being the driver of the vehicle, and no evidence of this has been presented, but the driver has not been named, the only route by which the appellant can be found to be liable for the parking charge is as the keeper of the vehicle. In order for this liability to exist, the operator must demonstrate compliance with a number of provisions contained within Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    I find that the appellant has failed to demonstrate compliance with paragraph 9(2)(e), which requires the operator to include within a document known as a ‘Notice to Keeper’ a statement that the creditor does not know the name and current address for service for the driver and a statement inviting the keeper to pay the charges or provide the name and current address for service to the creditor. These are separate obligations, and must be met separately. I find that the operator has fulfilled the latter requirement but not the former. Therefore, I am unable to find that keeper liability applies in this case, meaning that the appellant cannot be held to be liable for the parking charge.

    Accordingly, I must allow the appeal and need not consider the appellant’s substantive case.

    Christopher Monk
    Assessor
    Original thread: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5065946

    lgQVWiM.gif
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,287 Forumite
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    edited 12 November 2014 at 3:01PM
    Well that's a new one for Christopher Monk and Highview notices! Thanks for including the verification code so we can quote it for all Highview appeals.

    '' paragraph 9(2)(e), which requires the operator to include within a document known as a ‘Notice to Keeper’ a statement that the creditor does not know the name and current address for service for the driver and a statement inviting the keeper to pay the charges or provide the name and current address for service to the creditor. These are separate obligations, and must be met separately. I find that the operator has fulfilled the latter requirement but not the former. ''
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • DJBenz
    DJBenz Posts: 52 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Well that's a new one for Christopher Monk and Highview notices!

    I did think it was something I haven't read before which is why I included the appeal number in case it's useful for future cases.
  • POPLA WIN

    Date: July 7th 2014

    PCC: Highview Parking (Tesco car park) (ANPR)
    PCC claimed: 'breach' of 'terms and conditions'

    Appeal grounds: 1) No GPEoL 2) No right to issue tickets 3) No creditor identity 4) No contract 5) ANPR inaccurate/flawed

    Grounds for win: No Genuine Pre-estimate of Loss

    *****
    On 7 July 2014, the appellant was issued with a parking charge notice for breaching the terms and conditions of the parking site.

    It is the operator’s case that there was a maximum stay of 2 hours at the parking site, which the appellant overstayed. There is photographic evidence to support that there was adequate signage at the site to inform motorists of the parking terms and conditions. There is also evidence from the operator’s automatic number plate recognition system which shows the appellant’s vehicle, registration number XXXXXX, entered the site at 13:47 and exited at 16:18, a total stay of 2 hours and 31 minutes. I find that the operator has not shown that by exceeding the maximum stay at the site, the appellant at that point caused a loss to the operator or the landowner. The operator has only shown that they incurred the loss as a result of the appeals process after issuing the parking charge notice. In order for a charge to be a genuine pre-estimate of loss, the operator has to show that they at first have incurred an initial loss.I note that the operator has stated their initial loss to be the loss of revenue at £22. However, the operator has not shown that each customer would spend this amount upon visiting the site. In addition, it is not clear how the amount of £22 was calculated. Considering carefully, all the evidence before me, I find that as the operator has not shown that they have incurred an initial loss as a result of the appellant exceeding the maximum stay at the site, the charge sought is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.
    *****
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,320 Forumite
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    .I note that the operator has stated their initial loss to be the loss of revenue at £22. However, the operator has not shown that each customer would spend this amount upon visiting the site. In addition, it is not clear how the amount of £22 was calculated.

    And in any case this wouldn't be Highview's loss, even if it existed; it would be a loss to the retailer!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Wahey! :j Another one bites the dust! Shehla is definitely on my Christmas list.

    APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd (Operator)

    The Operator issued parking charge notice number xxxxxxxx arising out of a presence on private land, of a vehicle with registration mark
    xxxxxxx.

    The Appellant appealed against liability for the parking charge.

    The Assessor has considered the evidence of both parties and has
    determined that the appeal be allowed.

    The Assessor’s reasons are as set out.

    The Operator should now cancel the parking charge notice forthwith. xxxxxxxxx 13 November 2014

    Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination

    It is the Appellant’s case that the parking charge notice was issued
    incorrectly.

    The Operator has not produced a copy of the parking charge notice, nor any evidence to show a breach of the conditions of parking occurred, nor any evidence that shows what the conditions of parking, in fact, were.

    Accordingly I have no option but to allow the appeal.

    Shehla Pirwany
    Assessor
  • Two successful POPLA appeals thanks to the forum!

    First one
    "the parking charge amount is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss"
    Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination
    The Operator issued parking charge notice number -- arising out of the presence at --, on --, of a vehicle with registration mark -- for parking without a valid permit or authority.

    It is the Operator’s case that the Appellant’s vehicle was parked at the site without a valid permit or authority and this was a breach of the terms and conditions of parking as set out on signage at the site.

    The Appellant has made a number of submissions, however, I will only elaborate on the one submission that I am allowing this appeal on, namely that the parking charge amount is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    As the Appellant has raised the issue of the charge not being a genuine pre- estimate of loss, the onus is on the Operator to prove that it is. The Operator has responded by stating that the charge is a genuine pre-estimate of loss. The Operator has provided a table showing the losses they have incurred as a result of the Appellant’s breach. I note that the operator states their initial loss to be the cost of the warden and associated vehicle costs.

    Whilst I appreciate that in some cases e.g. where the car park is a pay and display one, the issuing of the parking charge notice may be held to be an initial loss, in this circumstance the car park is free and therefore there is no initial loss. The Operator has not shown that the Appellant caused a loss to themselves or the landowner by parking without displaying a valid permit.

    Considering carefully, all the evidence before me, I find that as the Operator has not shown that they have incurred an initial loss as a result of the Appellant not displaying a valid permit and therefore the charge sought is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.

    Nozir Uddin
    Assessor

    Second one
    "there is no lightning at the site and the sign is not prominent."
    Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination

    At --, on --, a parking operative observed the Appellant’s vehicle parked at --.

    The Operator’s case is that the Appellant breached the car parking conditions by parking without a valid permit or authority.

    The Appellant made representations stating his case. One of the points raised by the Appellant was that the sign is not visible in darkness. The Appellant submits that there is no lightning at the site and the sign is not prominent.

    The Operator is seeking to rely on an agreement between itself and the Appellant that the Appellant would park in accordance with the conditions or face liability for a parking charge. For such a term to be included in the agreement, it must be ‘incorporated’ into the agreement. The only relevant method of incorporation, in this case, is by notice. This means that the Appellant must have been made aware of the term, before the agreement was made, in order for it to be deemed part of the agreement. The Appellant will be deemed to have been made aware of the term if the Operator had taken reasonable steps to bring the term to the Appellant’s attention. The usual method by which an Operator takes ‘reasonable steps’ is by displaying clear signs around the site advertising the terms of parking.

    Once an Appellant submits that the terms of parking were not displayed clearly enough, the onus is then on the Operator to demonstrate that the signs at the time and location in question were sufficiently clear.

    There appears to be no dispute between the parties that it was dark when the Appellant was at the site. The Operator has not produced any evidence to demonstrate that the terms of parking were clearly displayed at night time. Although I note that there is signage at the site, the pictures of signage submitted by the Operator had been taken in the day time and there is no indication that they were illuminated and clearly displayed at night time.

    Consequently, I must find that the Operator has failed to demonstrate that it took reasonable steps to bring the terms of parking to the attention on the Appellant.

    I need not deicide any other issues.

    Accordingly, the appeal is allowed.

    Sakib Chowdhury
    Assessor

    :T:T

    Thanks a lot to the people who helped with this :)


    Unfortunately I'm currently having to appeal against UKCPS again in another location at my new home address! So there will be another update on this thread from me again in the near future.
  • Thanks all, won the appeal.

    Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination
    On 25 August 2014, the appellant was issued with a parking charge notice for breaching the terms and conditions of the parking site.
    It is the operator’s case that the appellant’s vehicle was parked outside of a marked bay despite signage at the site to indicate that this was necessary to do so.
    The appellant has made a number of submissions, however, I will only elaborate on the one submission that I am allowing this appeal on, namely that the parking charge amount is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
    In order to justify that the amount is a genuine pre-estimate of loss, the operator has submitted a breakdown of the losses incurred as a result of the appellant’s breach. Amongst other things, the operator has included “Site based” costs. Although a detailed breakdown may not necessarily be required to prove this, as the appellant has questioned the level of the charge in this case, it is necessary for the operator to provide an explanation as to how this sum was arrived at as an estimate of the damage which could be caused by the appellant’s alleged breach. The operator has stated, “The site-based costs include (but are not limited to) the cost of producing the charge itself with accompanying weatherproof wallet, which directly relates to the breach.” However, I find that the operator has failed to show how a sum of £36.21 has been calculated on these items alone. On this occasion, I am not satisfied that the operator has discharged the burden.
    Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed.
    Farah Ahmad
    Assessor
  • trisontana
    trisontana Posts: 9,472 Forumite
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    The most expensive plastic wallet in the world!
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
  • martmonk
    martmonk Posts: 863 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Assessor Aurela Qerimi

    Allowed on GPEOL, on VCS oct breakdown (v2.0).

    "Does not substantially reflect the loss suffered as a result of the breach. This is because it appears that a substantial portion of the costs refer to the debt recovery process and the 2nd stage process."

    There's more but that's the gist.

    Used CMs VCS template then a short rebuttal of GPEOL and signage.
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