I’ve invested in Bitcoin – it’s been a...

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MSE_Luke
MSE_Luke Posts: 295 MSE Staff
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edited 19 February 2018 at 5:35PM in Savings & investments
'You know what, the headline is wrong. I didn't invest - I gambled. I bought £250's worth of cryptocurrency - Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin - in December. I know nothing about them, I just saw the price rising and thought I could make a quick buck.'

Read MSE Guy's full blog: 'I've invested in Bitcoin - it's been a roller-coaster. Here's what I've learned'
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  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 10,941 Forumite
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    You could argue traditional investing is a form of gambling, but that!!!8217;s a debate for another day.
    No, it's a fallacy.

    Gambling = long run negative expectation of return, traditional investing = long run positive expectation of return.

    4% transaction costs! And to think that the sort of people who gamble on Bitcoin say things like "I don't want to be ripped off by the bloodsucking vested interests of the financial industry" - vested interests who charge around 3% for regulated advice (less for larger investments) plus transaction charges in the region of a quarter of a percent.
  • Bonnie151
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    Of course it!!!8217;s a gamble! Martin Lewis posted a link to his Bitcoin article via his fb page a few weeks ago where he entitled it !!!8220;investing in Bitcoin!!!8221;. I suggested he stop calling it investing as it is gambling and he responded by telling me to read the article and then I would understand why he calls it investing (can I roll my eyes and say that I had read the article and strongly disagree with him).

    I wish MSE would stop calling it investing and start calling it gambling. Hopefully this post is a start to a change! I love my Bitcoins and alt coins but how anyone can call them anything other than a gamble is beyond me!

    <rant over>
    Hmmmm, need new siggie :cool:
  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546 Forumite
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    Even those supposedly in the know surely couldn’t have predicted the wild swings from when one Bitcoin was worth about £1,000 last summer, soaring to almost £15,000 late last year, only for it to crash down to about £7,000 now.

    Then there's some extremely poorly educated people in this tech savvy world. Common sense alone should be enough.
  • ValiantSon
    ValiantSon Posts: 2,586 Forumite
    edited 20 February 2018 at 12:51AM
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    I bought £250!!!8217;s worth of cryptocurrency !!!8211; Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin !!!8211; in December. I know nothing about them, I just saw the price rising and thought I could make a quick buck.

    Classic speculator behaviour. Investing in something that you know nothing about because the price is rising is almost the very definition of speculation. This would be true of buying equities, or any other asset too.
    You could argue traditional investing is a form of gambling, but that!!!8217;s a debate for another day.

    You could argue that, but you would be completely wrong.
    Even those supposedly in the know surely couldn!!!8217;t have predicted the wild swings from when one Bitcoin was worth about £1,000 last summer, soaring to almost £15,000 late last year, only for it to crash down to about £7,000 now.

    I, and lots of others, predicted those swings. It wasn't exactly hard.
    The technology behind these currencies is called blockchain. Some very clever people have tried to explain it to me but I!!!8217;ve still little clue.

    "So I decided to buy into it!" :wall:
    Without wishing to blow my own trumpet, I know a thing or two about personal finance given my job. But I have to hold up my hands with crypto that I!!!8217;m an amateur.

    By the sounds of it, not just with cryptocurrency, but with any form investments, given the nonsense written within this blog that displays zero understanding of how markets work.
    I, like many others, thought !!!8220;wow!!!8221; when the price kept soaring late last year. I just wanted some of the excitement of getting involved as, other than a £20 buy-in when I play poker with my mates once a month or putting $30 on the tables when I went to Las Vegas a couple of years ago, I rarely gamble.

    Whereas, I, like many others, thought, "Look at that enormous bubble; I won't be going anywhere near that with my money!"
    A friend told me he!!!8217;d bought some crypto and as there was a possibility it would keep rising I thought !!!8220;why not?!!!8221;

    Always a bad reason to invest in something. "I had a tip from a friend [who also knows nothing about what he has invested in]."
    I have no intention of ever using any of the currencies I!!!8217;ve bought, I just hope for my gamble to net a profit.

    Good luck.

    Why would it return a profit? You've already commented on the wild volatility, so how can you even begin to know when to sell? Have you considered the intrinsic value of the asset? No, because, you "know nothing" about it.
    I used the Coinbase app as after some quick research

    Nothing like doing your homework is there? And that was nothing like doing your homework.
    Coinbase isn!!!8217;t the cheapest but the fees were bearable for the convenience. They were about 4% of what I bought.

    4%!!! :eek: If someone's equities investments were costing them 4% they would be up in arms about it. 4% is ridiculous. Exactly what is your 4% buying you?
    One thing I have learned is to avoid too many transfers within Coinbase. When I saw Bitcoin!!!8217;s value plateau in December I used some Bitcoin to buy some Ethereum within the app.

    Once again, the lack of understanding of investments shines through. You saw the price starting to fall so you sold. This is the way to lose money. Keep going!
    I was charged for taking money out of Bitcoin, and again, for using it to buy Ethereum.

    Yes, they saw you coming! It's aimed at the credulous who invest with no understanding or knowledge, so they charge high fees that experienced investors wouldn't even consider paying.
    Coinbase can also be expensive when withdrawing money !!!8211; see my colleague Callum!!!8217;s blog on how to withdraw money from Coinbase.

    Yes, I read your colleague's blog, and once I'd picked my chin up off the floor, I wondered why anyone would have used such a service without checking first what the the process was for getting at your money.

    And given the volatility, the whole process means that the price could have swung wildly between when you chose to sell and when you actually were able to.
    As I write this, my £250 gamble stands at £300.57. Sorry, scrap that. It!!!8217;s now £303.65 !!!8211; it moved about 1% in the hour or so between first writing this and applying the finishing touches.

    I!!!8217;ve lost money in theory in the last few weeks, though. It hit £450 a few weeks ago, then dropped to £200ish only to recover a bit to the £300-or-so mark.

    There have been other yo-yo moments within those peaks and troughs. If the stock market had bounced around like Bitcoin, there would be chaos.

    Now there's an investment I don't want to be part of!
    Should you gamble on Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies?

    Only if you are either completely credulous, or you have so much money that you just don't know what to do with it all.
    You may be reading this in the same position I was in last year when considering whether to take the plunge, and hoping I!!!8217;ll answer that question for you.

    Sorry, I can!!!8217;t. It!!!8217;s simply down to your attitude to risk and whether you are prepared to gamble on something you probably know little about.

    Is your attitude to risk one of being prepared to lose absolutely everything you put in and not being able to sell when you actually want to, and paying sky-high fees for the privilige?
    What I would say is if you!!!8217;re an amateur in this field like me,

    Let me correct that for you: "What I would say is you are an amateur in this field, just like me,"
    See it as a flutter, wondering what number will come up when you open the app !!!8211; and hopefully making some money.

    There are much cheaper ways of betting.
  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 10,941 Forumite
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    Thrugelmir wrote: »
    Then there's some extremely poorly educated people in this tech savvy world. Common sense alone should be enough.

    I'm not sure you read the rest of the sentence after "wild swings". When Bitcoin was at £1,000 common sense dictated that it would rise to £15,000 and then collapse to £7,000 etc?

    Pretty much no-one predicted it would go through yet another bubble (or it wouldn't have been at £1,000 at that point). Once it rose to £15,000 then yes, common sense dictated there would be wild swings between the mugs piling in on one side and the economic laws of gravity on the other. But Guy was saying that nobody could have predicted this when Bitcoin had only just recovered the all-time high from which it previously collapsed in 2014.
  • AlisonCVS
    AlisonCVS Posts: 89 Forumite
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    Anyone know anything about CryptoNash - I saw an article quoting they had been on Dragon Den and set up an account with £250. They very slickly managed to persuade me to add a further £750. When they kept pressuring me to add £1000 more I got anxious and decided, "you know what, I am pulling out". I have been waiting 2 weeks for them to close the account and pay me back my money - I don't even care about the apparent profit I have made. Starting to think i have been had.

    Any advise gratefully received.
  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 10,941 Forumite
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    AlisonCVS wrote: »
    Anyone know anything about CryptoNash - I saw an article quoting they had been on Dragon Den and set up an account with £250. They very slickly managed to persuade me to add a further £750. When they kept pressuring me to add £1000 more I got anxious and decided, "you know what, I am pulling out". I have been waiting 2 weeks for them to close the account and pay me back my money - I don't even care about the apparent profit I have made. Starting to think i have been had.

    You have been had. The money is gone.
    Any advise gratefully received.

    Write it off. Change your phone number / email address / however they contacted you - you are on a suckers list. If you fell for this obvious scam you are at high risk of falling for more scams in the future, and might lose more than £1,000 next time.
  • BinkyStottom
    BinkyStottom Posts: 15 Forumite
    edited 9 May 2018 at 7:46PM
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    You know what, I'm happy for the government to continue thinking that cryptocurrency is gambling because I won't have to pay taxes on my gains.

    However, to disagree with Malthusian in post #2 That is merely his opinion of gambling vs investing, that is not a factual definition of either.

    The thing about Bitcoin or cryptocurrency in general is that you will get a lot of advice and opinion from people who don't know what they're talking about, don't understand what it is, have money already tied up in traditional stocks and shares but the worst opinion comes from those who feel threatened by it.

    There's only three criticisms I would make towards Guy Anker' investment...

    1: He invested at the wrong time (could have got in at a much better price)

    2: He didn't invest anywhere near enough!

    3: He doesn't understand what he's investing in and how to go about it (exchanging currencies in coinbase is a no no)

    Actually, the more I read, the more issues I have with the whole blog...
  • DollarPincher
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    Completely agree with BinkyStottom. If you actually do your research, crypto currencies are more akin to venture capital investing than they are gambling. Some might be worth 0, but a handful will definitely be worth serious $$$.

    That's why you need a balanced portfolio, and to do your homework!
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