Gladstones Letter Before Action

snorbit · 19 April 2017 at 9:32AM

Hi,

First of all, I have read the Newbies thread, but nonetheless please forgive me if the answer to my basic question is clear.

My question:

If I have had a Letter Before Claim from Gladstones, and I make them a settlement offer, do I automatically have to then go to court (i.e. do I lose the chance to settle for the full amount). Parking company is SIP.

Background:

I had two tickets from land outside my flat from back in November. One of these was for an overstay, the other was for no ticket. During the time, I was only at the flat about once a week so it wasn't worth me buying month-long or week-long tickets as I had previously: the downside being there were two occasions in November where I overstayed/forgot.

I have previously paid two PCNs to SIP, and I have numerous 'Paybyphone' app receipts since Feb 2016. I have already spent £750 on this car park (app and PCNs), plus probably the same again on paper tickets the machine (outside my home!).

I started preparing a letter to SIP over the weekend picking holes in their "Notice to Hirer" letters for the two November PCNs. I also arranged to rent a private space in the basement of the building to stop this happening again... then an hour before I was due to move into the new space on Sunday, I got ANOTHER PCN.

So I now have a LBC relating to two PCNs in November, and another one from Easter Sunday.

On the LBCs, they have jacked the amount from £100 each (per the PCN/NTH), to £160, with no explanation.

I've read through the forums and I understand that, if I were prepared to go to court, I would probably win. However, I already have a stressful commute, I had a car accident last Thursday (not my fault, but still a faff with repairs), and I am about to move job (to avoid the commute and driving altogether!). Therefore, I don't want to go to court.

I am thinking of offering £100 each for the two PCNs (i.e. the original amount) to make it go away and get on with my life. Its my fault for not challenging these sooner. What chance that they'll accept it though? And if they don't, will they automatically apply for a County Court hearing (i.e. will I lose the chance to "only" pay £160?).

LBC was dated 12/04/17 but only arrived yesterday.

The one on Easter Sunday I'm less sure of, given that I still have time to formally appeal.

Help!

Fruitcake · 19 April 2017 at 9:47AM

Nobody here will suggest that you pay the scammers.

Do you own/rent the flat? If so what does your lease/AST say sbout parking/parking permits?
What did the landowner say when you complained?

Lease/AST trumps made up rules by a private parkig company.

There is plenty of advice on how to win at court in the NEWBIES thread, so that is where you should start. If you went to court and lost, it would cost you about £175. If you went to court and won, you would potentially be £95 better off.

I think I'm right in saying that forum assisted cases have yet to lose to Gladrags.

snorbit · 19 April 2017 at 10:03AM

It is technically open land adjacent to my flat (muddy and potholed), which is mostly used by city-centre commuters. I understand that the land is about to be built on, so the "car park" will "close" in the next couple of months.

I know I would win at court. I don't want to go to court because I'm already overloaded with other areas of life: my question is whether it is worth me offering something less than the £160x2 that they are claiming, or if that will lead to them going to court anyway.

Umkomaas · 19 April 2017 at 11:31AM

If you don't want to go to court then you have to settle this by either paying them the full amount requested or make a sensible offer. Don't expect them to snatch your hand off with the first offer you make. If you can't come to an agreement, expect them to continue with their court claim.

If you let it proceed to court without defending there will be a default judgment in favour of the PPC for the full amount claimed. If you don't pay that in full you will be the recipient of an unsatisfied CCJ with a crippling trashing of your credit worthiness. Forget a new mortgage, personal loan or even a cell phone contract. It will mess up your life!

A half-hearted court defence will likely see a loss too - then you're likely to cop for up to the full claim (you might persuade the judge not to award some of the peripheral costs claimed).

By not wanting to defend this you really are painting yourself into a corner as the wolves approach.

snorbit · 19 April 2017 at 11:34AM

Simple question though: if I offer to pay £100x2 (and they say no) do I automatically lose the opportunity to pay the £160x2 they are now demanding.

Umkomaas · 19 April 2017 at 11:43AM

snorbit wrote: »

Simple question though: if I offer to pay £100x2 (and they say no) do I automatically lose the opportunity to pay the £160x2 they are now demanding.

Not at all. You can settle any time right up to the courtroom door.

If you do make them an offer, you need to explain why it is a good offer and paint the benefits to them of settling now. Like they will save on advocates fees, there will be no further administration costs to them, all over and done with, they won't have to take a chance on actually losing the case which would almost certainly involve them in paying your costs. Make it an offer they will find hard to dismiss.

Coupon-mad · 19 April 2017 at 11:53AM

snorbit wrote: »

Simple question though: if I offer to pay £100x2 (and they say no) do I automatically lose the opportunity to pay the £160x2 they are now demanding.

Simple answer. No.

But none of us see this as the 'opportunity' it is being described as. This is sad to answer because you appear to want to pay even though you know you can win and (apart from the time preparing) court is just a couple of hours in a few months' time; no risk, no CCJ, no effect on credit rating because you'd then pay about £150/£175 (IF YOU LOST).

It's sad because this is why the industry prospers. It is wrong and worth the fight, even for busy people. Such a shame to see you fall victim to this and that you've already paid them twice for 2 other 'PCNs'. It is nasty and like a protection racket, not something to pay/support.

snorbit · 19 April 2017 at 11:57AM

Hi, thanks for your response.

I'm not sure I'm quite being clear though: I don't want there to be a "courtroom door", i.e. I don't want it to get to the point where they actually even apply to the court for a hearing.

So if I offer say £100x2, can they say "thank you for your response, we reject this and have no option but to apply to the County Court". Then I either have to go to court or pay a settlement which would now include court fees.

snorbit · 19 April 2017 at 12:03PM

In the last 6 weeks, I've had a driver awareness course, a speed awareness course, 3 points, 1x PCN and now this. Oh and a crash last Thursday (no fault).

I spend 3 hours a day commuting and work 50 hours a week in a very stressful job. Okay, "boo-hoo me", others have it worse sure, but I don't feel I can handle the stress of "just" a few days preparing. Its not that I am intimidated by the court, I just want to get on with my life.

I hate that this industry prospers too.

Coupon-mad · 19 April 2017 at 12:07PM

The added court fee for between £300-£500 is around £50, not huge, and there would only be one claim. You could agree with Gladrags to have the case 'heard on the papers' (no hearing) which we don't recommend normally but would at least give you the chance to submit a defence and argue against the added £60 per PCN. A bit like a formal appeal but letting the court decide.

Even if you then lost, your argument against the added £60 per PCN would be considered by a Judge - and so for two PCNs you'd be looking (even if you lost, as long as the Judge agreed about the £60 being unrecoverable) at being told to pay £100 x 2, plus £50.

If so, it's less than is being *offered* now.

So, although it sticks in my throat/fingers to type this, you could certainly reply to G's now and in response to the LBC, offer £100 per PCN to end the matter and see what they say. And be ready to agree to have the case heard on the papers (this is NOT recommended for other newbies reading this because that's a weak way to *defend* and might not see off the £100 PCNs, whereas in your local court, you would have a good chance).

snorbit · 19 April 2017 at 12:09PM

My post goes to my parents home, which is in another city to my flat/the car park, so I only find out about any of these things (except the crash!) when I get an a*sey text from them, adding to the stress. This also has added to the anxiety.

Gladstones Letter Before Action

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