Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

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  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737
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    edited 9 July 2012 at 6:14PM
    Jaspersmum wrote: »

    I am going to start working through the very useful list of suppliers ....

    And here's another:

    Sensa Oil & Gas - in Malton

    rcgood uses/used them - see here and here (and there are other posts): their prices go up and down..... but Flogas do the deliveries! You might like to read HateLPG's comment here too. GrandadRob has posted (here) that he NEVER had a decrease in price from Flogas - so now he's an ex-Flogas customer. Extra Fuel - which is my supplier down here in Cornwall - also uses Flogas to deliver. And, of course, I pay Extra Fuel's prices, posted on-line (here) which go up and down each month - see that graph! If I lived near Extra Fuel's Manchester base their own tankers would deliver. Very happy with them.

    Sensa does NOT seem to be a member of UKLPG. Well, they don't come up on UKLPG's list of members - but there are lots of mistakes on the database.

    Jaspersmum, you could ask the companies to send you also a list/plot of their past prices. Cardiff Gas and Extra Fuel are happy to do this. Of course, the supplier may also be happy for us to add the data to the graph! (but that comes later, if you judge they might be willing, and you are happy to ask).

    LATE ADDITION!

    HateLPG has provided lots of advice on finding and comparing LPG suppliers so I asked him for the main links and here they are. You'll find that some things have changed a little (e.g. Flogas, after action by OFT, now offers a cap).

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=42455736&postcount=873

    Finding farmers' co-ops (you probably don't have to be a farmer!):

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=42284086&postcount=853

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=42154082&postcount=842

    so that's saved HateLPG a post! As always, if you find the advice is out of date please tell us, and if you find it useful please add your thanks! And, as a 'footnote', a month ago Ace gas guzzler asked here how to thank people, and got several replies (basically click on 'Thanks', but also update info and please, please let us know outcomes if you've had a problem and got advice so someone else can benefit. I'd just add that you can click on your username and see the last 300 posts you have thanked so you have a record of posts you've found useful across the whole of MSE forums. You can of course click on anyone's username to see what they thanked! So LittleVermin 300+, Ace ... etc)
    ..
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464
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    Jaspersmum wrote: »
    Hi rrj23

    I am going to start working through the very useful list of suppliers that LittleVermin kindly posted for me tomorrow morning. It has been manic here with moving house then mother in law in hospital having a hip replacement. I will ring round them all and ask them to email contracts so I can check them over.

    And here's another that might be worth a call (depending on where in Yorkshire you are):

    Northern LPG Supplies Ltd (based in Harrogate)
    http://www.northernenergy.co.uk
  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737
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    edited 11 July 2012 at 6:11PM
    HateLPG wrote: »
    And here's another that might be worth a call (depending on where in Yorkshire you are):

    Northern LPG Supplies Ltd (based in Harrogate)
    http://www.northernenergy.co.uk

    Sorry, I missed that one. Its USP is charging no VAT - i.e. they pay the VAT, which is 5% on LPG for heating.

    We do have one comment (by ancillotti) on Northern Energy / LPG Homeheat:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=31255525&postcount=177

    Was the 44% price rise ancillotti mentions (from 34ppl in May 2009 to 49ppl the following winter) justified by a rise in the wholesale price of propane? This is where the graphs come in useful! We didn't have access to any of the wholesale figures/graphs (Platts, ANSI and Bloomberg) when he posted. But it appears that the wholesale price based on ANSI was 13ppl in May 2009 and 27ppl by February 2010. BUT the Extra Fuel price in February 2010 was around 42ppl - so that 49ppl from Northern Energy looks a little expensive, even if its VAT-free equivalent price is 46.67ppl.
    ..
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464
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    edited 13 July 2012 at 11:18PM
    Bosses at liquefied petroleum gas supplier Flogas have blamed milder weather for a 69 per cent slump in annual profits.
    See "This is Leicestershire: Mild Weather hits gas profits" for the full story

    That's one possible explanation, I suppose. Perhaps it also has something to do with exploited users realise they can switch and looking elsewhere for supply?

    I fear it doesn't bode too well for those who continue to Go with the Flo!
  • crazyz
    crazyz Posts: 29 Forumite
    There is no such thing as VAT free, they have to charge it by law.
    Its probably a play with words what they will do is take the VAT off a unit price and charge that. I would bet the invoice they receive has VAT on it. Also how would a commercial LPG claim the VAT back if its not on the invoice, unless they only supply to domestics?
    Sorry, I missed that one. Its USP is charging no VAT - i.e. they pay the VAT, which is 5% on LPG for heating.

    We do have one comment (by ancillotti) on Northern Energy / LPG Homeheat:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=31255525&postcount=177

    Was the 44% price rise ancillotti mentions (from 34ppl in May 2009 to 49ppl the following winter) justified by a rise in the wholesale price of propane? This is where the graphs come in useful! We didn't have access to any of the wholesale figures/graphs (Platts, ANSI and Bloomberg) when he posted. But it appears that the wholesale price based on ANSI was 13ppl in May 2009 and 27ppl by February 2010. BUT the Extra Fuel price in February 2010 was around 42ppl - so that 49ppl from Northern Energy looks a little expensive, even if its VAT-free equivalent price is 46.67ppl.
    ..
  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737
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    edited 11 July 2012 at 11:20PM
    HateLPG wrote: »
    And here's another that might be worth a call (depending on where in Yorkshire you are):

    Northern LPG Supplies Ltd (based in Harrogate)
    http://www.northernenergy.co.uk
    Sorry, I missed that one. Its USP is charging no VAT - i.e. they pay the VAT, which is 5% on LPG for heating.
    .................
    so that 49ppl from Northern Energy looks a little expensive, even if its VAT-free equivalent price is 46.67ppl.
    ..
    crazyz wrote: »
    There is no such thing as VAT free, they have to charge it by law.
    Its probably a play with words what they will do is take the VAT off a unit price and charge that. I would bet the invoice they receive has VAT on it. Also how would a commercial LPG claim the VAT back if its not on the invoice, unless they only supply to domestics?

    Yes, of course, crazyz. I think Northern Energy will hope their USP appears better than it is because people think the VAT will be 15%, 17.5%, ... when it is only 5% on LPG for domestic heating*. Their website has stuff about "our excellent Recession Recovery Package".

    As I pointed out, paying every other supplier 46.67ppl (plus VAT) is the same as paying Northern Energy 49ppl ("no VAT").. which seemed expensive compared to Extra Fuel's price at the time of 42ppl (actually it was 41.06ppl - I've just checked, so 12% cheaper than Northern Energy!).

    *HMRC Notice 701/19 (here)

    ..
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464
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    edited 12 July 2012 at 9:30AM
    As I pointed out, paying every other supplier 46.67ppl (plus VAT) is the same as paying Northern Energy 49ppl ("no VAT").. which seemed expensive compared to Extra Fuel's price at the time of 42ppl (actually it was 41.06ppl - I've just checked, so 12% cheaper than Northern Energy!).
    ..

    And, as it's a "special deal", there's probably very little you can do if they suddenly decide that it's you, the consumer, who now has to foot the VAT bill rather than them continuing to pick up the tab. Especially as it seems the available consumer protection for the domestic LPG user ain't worth a pile of beans! All that said, they have been offering this "We pay the VAT" deal for over 12 months, so maybe it is a genuine long-term offer honestly made.

    The bottom line is, as LittleVermin implies, in practical terms it really doesn't matter whether the price you pay is inc. VAT, ex. VAT or comes with free coconuts on Mondays - what matters is the actual number of pennies that you ultimately pay per litre of their finest LPG.
  • Jaspersmum
    Jaspersmum Posts: 86
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    Hello again

    Quick update on how I am doing so far! Not very well!!

    Avanti gas came round today to discuss their quote and look at the tank etc - they said that if I contacted Calor that they would very likely match the quote from Avanti (43.9ppl) also that the tank has a screening wooden fence around 2 sides of it and if they took over the supply I would have to move it. He said that if I decided to go with Avanti (after moving the fence) that as soon as Calor received the paperwork to take over the tank then Calor would contact me and match the price anyway!

    So they suggested I ring Calor and tell them the price I had from Avanti - which I did, they are sending someone out on 30th July to discuss.

    I also contacted Rectory on Monday and asked them for a quote but they replied saying due to staff holidays they cannot get me a quote until next week.

    I found out the tank holds 1410 litres.
  • rrj23
    rrj23 Posts: 7 Forumite
    bry54 wrote: »
    We have the heating on timed for 90 mins in the morning and 120 minutes in the evening with room thermostat set to 18-19C
    Have 1-2 showers a day and the occasional bath.

    Hi again, still pickling my brain this LPG.

    With what you said with the heating on am and pm, is this through the winter only?

    Do you also have a cesspit?
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464
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    edited 13 July 2012 at 3:36PM
    Interesting. And most revealing:
    http://www.trustpilot.co.uk/review/www.flogas.co.uk
    Draw your own conclusions.

    (And as with everything else posted online by "users", this forum included, read with a critical eye - not that there's much "reading between the lines" required!)

    NOTE: In the interests of fairness and balance (and before someone accuses me of just "Having a go at Flo"), I did have a good search on that site for reviews of other LPG suppliers to add to that list, but could find none with any comments.
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