Capability Hearing
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Voluntary redundancy to be stated as the reason for leaving - not resignation. Resigning without a job to go to is no better than being sacked - many employers will assume that you've done something to be sacked for! Voluntary redundancy is actually meaningless, but since nobody knows that, it doesn't matter.
"voluntary redundancy" seems a good idea although it still raises the "WHY" but vague than resignation...That's really good. I work with a different sector of professionals and once a date for termination had been given for an SA, it stayed. If extended then the final lump sum would also go down
If you resign what guarantee have you got that everything else will be honored if not leaving under an SA? This makes me uneasy.....
I think 'Resignation" is only for the purposes of references and not in literal sense. The SA would be still the route adopted but for rest of the world it will be made to look like a resignation.0 -
"voluntary redundancy" seems a good idea although it still raises the "WHY" but vague than resignation...
Also VR is OK for claiming contributions JSA where as resignation may get payments refused if you want to claim.
It is fairly common for places to use VR first and if not enough apply to then make compulsory and as your place has let people go recently you can spin the story to give credibility to it being a phase two redundancy situation.
Also if you have you eyes and eyes open you will probably see the signs if others are on the hit list.
we always knew when something was about to happen as in the weeks leading up to the announcements the work/meeting patterns changed for certain people.0 -
getmore4less wrote: »Also VR is OK for claiming contributions JSA where as resignation may get payments refused if you want to claim.
It is fairly common for places to use VR first and if not enough apply to then make compulsory and as your place has let people go recently you can spin the story to give credibility to it being a phase two redundancy situation.
Also if you have you eyes and eyes open you will probably see the signs if others are on the hit list.
we always knew when something was about to happen as in the weeks leading up to the announcements the work/meeting patterns changed for certain people.
Ok, I agree VR is the best way going forward, although in terms of insurance claims it really doesn't matter to me as I haven't got my self covered for the mortgage which I know was so stupid to not do that. Does the VR help in any way for the HMRC or council benefits??
For my tomorrow's negotiation meeting with HR, this is what I plan to propose,- 6 Months tax free termination play plus an additional one month garden leave
- In the current package, there is a sum equivalent to roughly 3 months net pay as "contractual notice payment". I take it this will get reduced if I request for garden leave, is that correct??
- Will request for further details of "support" for re-training & career support services, i.e. will there be financial support to pay off the fees for any courses that I choose to help me find another job.
And from the findings so far, many of the people who left this job have either changed career or still looking out.... Not a lot are still sticking to this profession, and one of our competitors has asked me to wait until later this year as they are interested in my profile but work load isn't sufficient to make the case yet..
:sad: 0 -
Good morning,
I have been talking few others who had left the company recently and it turns out many of them were in the same boat a me!! Little did I knew about this as I thought all these people had left on their own accord..
Apparently the general comment was they all managed to the stretch the time by asking to alter the PIP as the initial one was very unrealistic like it has been given to me and also what was interesting was that they weren't offered any negotiation on the deal. That made me wonder if I was given that privilege just because I wasn't confronting perhaps??
Anyway have been given extra time until Tuesday now. My manager is back on Monday. But I plan to take off on Tuesday as I have to do childcare.0 -
After my discussions last week, the company agreed to raise the package by another month and gave me a draft copy of the SA. I was told to get it vetted by a Solicitor.
My meeting with Solicitor yesterday apparently revealed a few other things in my current circumstances that I should be considering. He felt that the amount they are paying isn't reasonable especially when the job market is very tough. Secondly, he also felt that the Company is unfair with the way they are dealing with this whole situation. The PIP was set up for failure and on top of that there is a potential case for discrimination when there are several others in similar position who are less able than me.
Now, I'm not sure how much to go with the Solicitor's advice however I guess I'm only following what the company has asked me to do, that is to seek advice from a solicitor. The Solicitor is to talk to the HR today about the situation, I did tell him that I don't want to complicate matters more than what they are already.
Just a concern how the company would react and whether there will be any negative consequences on my profile as a result of this twist.
Thanks0 -
going back a bit.
IMO keep the termination payment separate from the notice based payment and any contractual stuff like holiday bonus etc.
This ring fences the bit that are taxable
The notice based can be worked, garden leave or PILON.
These could be a mix where you work a bit(handover) have GL(to extend the termination date and you can say you still have a job for a bit)and PILON for any left over.
No matter how bitter and angry you are remember the work place is a small world and although this may be a revelation to you that the company has been doing this for a while the rest of the industry will know which in a ways is quite good for future employment prospects when the work is there, being "available" is not as negative as it could be.
If I have it right for your 11 years service, the package on the table now is around
4 month gross tax free
3 month notice pay(as PILON).
Do check with the solicitor on how far the money the company will pay will go.
I suspect it may just cover that initial consultation and this first call.
ON the new work front do places ever need interims or offer single project contracts, that may be a way to get some money in while looking.
Another angle may be to look at your customers and network through them, would they have anything you could do, then suppliers...0 -
I seriously hope that advice doesn't come from an employment specialist. And yes - the settlement doesn't exist until signed by both parties, so there is nothing to stop the employer improving it - or taking it off the table altogether and going back to the performance measures for you.After my discussions last week, the company agreed to raise the package by another month and gave me a draft copy of the SA. I was told to get it vetted by a Solicitor.
My meeting with Solicitor yesterday apparently revealed a few other things in my current circumstances that I should be considering. He felt that the amount they are paying isn't reasonable especially when the job market is very tough. That is irrelevant. A tribunal - if you had a case and if you won- would not consider that. You've done your negotiating - that is the time to argue circumstances, not now. Unless your want to risk losing the lot by going back and saying no. Secondly, he also felt that the Company is unfair with the way they are dealing with this whole situation. The PIP was set up for failure That is an opinion, not something you can proveand on top of that there is a potential case for discrimination when there are several others in similar position who are less able than me. Utter and complete rubbish. Being "less able" ( and that's your opinion, not evidenced fact) is not a protected characteristic and no discrimination claim can exist for such a thing.
Now, I'm not sure how much to go with the Solicitor's advice however I guess I'm only following what the company has asked me to do, that is to seek advice from a solicitor. The Solicitor is to talk to the HR today about the situation, I did tell him that I don't want to complicate matters more than what they are already.
Just a concern how the company would react and whether there will be any negative consequences on my profile as a result of this twist.
Thanks
The solicitor is acting on your behalf - if you didn't want them to talk to HR then you should have said so. You are also aware that this is likely at a cost to you? If the employer is paying a contribution, which is common practice, that only covers reading it, advising you on it, and witnessing it. The minute they did more than that, the cost comes down to you.0 -
The solicitor is acting on your behalf - if you didn't want them to talk to HR then you should have said so. You are also aware that this is likely at a cost to you? If the employer is paying a contribution, which is common practice, that only covers reading it, advising you on it, and witnessing it. The minute they did more than that, the cost comes down to you.
Yes.
OP has the employer agree to pay for your legal advice up to £xxx?
If so, has it been clearly agreed that they will pay for this even if, for any reason, it doesn't lead to a SA being signed?
It is a common misconception that the employer HAS to pay for the employee's legal advice for a SA. The requirement is that you are advised by a solicitor (or specially trained trades union official), that they provide a certificate to that effect and have appropriate insurance in place. Who pays for that advice is a matter for negotiation.
Any work done by the solicitor over and above the agreed fee (if there is one) is down to you regardless of whether it achieves a better settlement or not. Obviously if spending £1K with the solicitor gets you more than that in additional settlement then it is money well spent. But be aware of the gamble you are taking.0 -
Previous post(#22) said £350 towards the solicitor for the SA.0
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getmore4less wrote: »Previous post(#22) said £350 towards the solicitor for the SA.
Thanks.
Round here that wouldn't even cover the bare minimum with most solicitors!0
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