IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

Highview lied to POPLA

Options
I sent off a 13 page, 7 point, appeal to POPLA and have just received the evidence submitted by Highview. In their evidence they have the form that i supposedly submitted when i appealed to them directly. They have highlighted that I selected 'I was the driver' when there was no such option and I have a screenshot of the page saved before i submitted it showing this (because I saw this had happened to someone previously). They claim that this refutes my point of 'no keeper liability' but how can I prove they are lying without being able to submit new evidence in my comments to POPLA?
«13

Comments

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,346 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Options
    We're well aware of that nasty little drop down box, but I've never seen one (having never been ticketed) 'in action'.

    I'd certainly vehemently rebut the point in your response to POPLA - I'm not sure whether you can attach a photo to prove your point, if you can, do so.

    But even if you lose at POPLA there's absolutely no compunction to pay HV - they are the least 'dangerous' of all parking companies, they'll do nothing more than write a few silly letters.

    You could also write to Steve Clark of the BPA, shown him both documents and ask for his help - don't let this get in the way of your POPLA rebuttal as you only have 7, but in effect 6, days for this.

    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    You could also bring it to the attention of your MP and ask him to note how this industry is out of control in the scramble for coin.

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d5550515-cce9-4185-83ec-754dadb7524a

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=542818572836763&id=215232008599719&_rdr
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • twhitehousescat
    Options
    Steve clark will side with highview

    that is the job of the BPA , - "to protect its members interests"
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,346 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Options
    Steve clark will side with highview

    that is the job of the BPA , - "to protect its members interests"

    Most times when we advise emailing him, the PPC withdraws. Let's see how it pans out.

    Obviously we are selective in picking the right cases to advise contacting him.

    Time will tell.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Bean789
    Bean789 Posts: 10 Forumite
    Options
    Thanks everyone I will upload my comments to POPLA asap and look into contacting my MP and the BPA in the morning.
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    Steve clark will side with highview

    that is the job of the BPA , - "to protect its members interests"

    Membership clubs like the BPA and IPC are dinosaurs in 2018
    and onwards.
    You can never get a fair system where membership fees
    are collected

    The BPA in particular are letting motorists down and even more
    with POPLA, a so called independent appeals system who
    clearly don't understand ... BBC Watchdog proved that

    And then there is the IPC/IAS, a complete scam and
    government should get rid of this scamming bunch
  • Bean789
    Bean789 Posts: 10 Forumite
    edited 20 November 2018 at 4:05PM
    Options
    ***UPDATE*** POPLA Response

    Decision: Unsuccessful

    Assessor Name: Zara Parkinson

    Assessor summary of operator case:
    The operator has issued a parking charge notice for failing to obtain a valid electronic permit to park on site. As the driver of the appellant’s vehicle was not permitted to park on the site her vehicle has been recorded as overstaying.

    Assessor summary of your case:
    The appellant states that she does not deem herself to be liable for the parking charge notice however she has not as I have confirmed above provided details of the driver. Further the appellant has stated that POFA 2012 has not been met. The appellant has raised further points as follows;
    1. No Evidence of Period Parked;
    2. Highview Parking Ltd. lacks proprietary interest in the land and does not have the capacity to offer contracts or to bring a claim for trespassing;
    3. The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself;
    4. Failure to comply with the data protection 'ICO Code of Practice' applicable to ANPR (no information about SAR rights, no privacy statement, no evaluation to justify that 24/7 ANPR enforcement at this site is justified, fair and proportionate).
    5. No Planning Permission from Warrington Borough Council for Mounted ANPR Cameras and no Advertising Consent for signage.

    Assessor supporting rational for decision
    The operator has stated in its evidence pack that it considers the appellant is the driver and keeper. Having reviewed the evidence, I do not consider the appellant has admitted to being the driver in her appeal. However, she is the registered keeper. I will therefore be considering her responsibility as keeper of the vehicle, XXXXXXX.

    The terms and conditions of this site state: “2 ½ hour maximum stay, for gym members only”. Further, the terms state; If your vehicle remains on site and fails to comply with any of the terms and conditions stated below at any time, you agree to pay a £85 Parking charge (reduced to £50 if paid within 14 days): “Maximum stay period for registered Pure Gym members vehicles only. Members must register their vehicles using the touchscreen console inside the gym to validate their parking”. The operator has issued a parking charge notice for failing to obtain a valid electronic permit to park on site. As the driver of the appellant’s vehicle was not permitted to park on the site her vehicle has been recorded as overstaying.

    The operator has provided copies of its signage, including a site map. I am satisfied, that the operators signage does adhere to the requirements of Section 18 of the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice, which outlines the minimum requirements in relation to signage.

    Further, the operator has provided photographs from its automatic number plate recognition cameras. These captured the vehicle entering the site on 16 August 2018 at 12:06 and exiting at 13:44, which is a total stay of one hour and 37 minutes. The operator maintains a list of individual vehicle registrations authorised to park each day. In its evidence, it has demonstrated that the appellant’s vehicle, XXXXXXX was not registered to park on the date of contravention.

    Further, the operator has provided copies of its notice to keeper that it sent to the appellant. In order for the keeper to be liable for the parking charge, the operator has to follow the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA). Having reviewed the evidence, I consider that there looks to be a contract between the driver and the parking operator, and the appellant has not provided a current name and address for service for the driver.

    Further, the notice sent complies with the relevant provisions. I am satisfied that the operator has met POFA to transfer liability. I now turn to the appellant’s grounds of appeal to determine if they make a material difference to the validity of the parking charge notice.

    The appellant states that she does not deem herself to be liable for the parking charge notice however she has not as I have confirmed above provided details of the driver. Further the appellant has stated that POFA 2012 has not been met. With regards to this point I would just confirm as I have above that I am satisfied that the operator has complied with the relevant provisions in order to pursue the appellant as the keeper of the vehicle.

    The appellant has raised further points as follows;
    1. No Evidence of Period Parked;
    2. Highview Parking Ltd. lacks proprietary interest in the land and does not have the capacity to offer contracts or to bring a claim for trespassing;
    3. The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself;
    4. Failure to comply with the data protection 'ICO Code of Practice' applicable to ANPR (no information about SAR rights, no privacy statement, no evaluation to justify that 24/7 ANPR enforcement at this site is justified, fair and proportionate).
    5. No Planning Permission from Warrington Borough Council for Mounted ANPR Cameras and no Advertising Consent for signage.

    I must clarify that in an ANPR camera-controlled site such as this one, there is no requirement to show the vehicle parked, only the entry and exit time. As the appellant’s vehicle remained on site the driver of the vehicle was making use of the facilities provided by the operator regardless of whether the appellant considered the vehicle to have been parked for the full duration of stay.

    The appellant has also asked POPLA to consider landowner authority. The operator has provided a witness statement signed on 17 October 2018, by John Michael Graham on behalf of the landowner Pure Gym Ltd. This witness statement confirms that operator Highview Parking has had the authority of the Landowner to undertake parking management, control, and enforcement at the site since 28 October 2014. The witness statement includes instructions from Pure Gym Ltd for the operator to pursue parking charges in accordance with the British Parking Association Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice.

    The operator has provided photographs of its signage at the site. I am of the opinion that had the landowner ended the agreement with the operator between then the operator’s signage would not remain in place. I accept on review that the operator does have authority from the landowner to operate on this site.

    I note that the appellant has questioned the signage at the site. As such, I must consider if the parking operator has met the requirements of Section 18 of the BPA Code of Practice which outlines the minimum requirements in relation to signage. In response, the operator has provided copies of its signage. It has also provided a site map.
    Section 18.1 of the BPA Code of Practice states the following: “In all cases, the driver’s use of your land will be governed by your terms and conditions, which the driver should be made aware of from the start. You must use signs to make it easy for them to find out what your terms and conditions are.
    Furthermore, Section 18.2 of the BPA Code of Practice states: “Entrance signs play an important part in establishing a parking contract and deterring trespassers. Therefore, as well as the signs you must have telling drivers about the terms and conditions for parking, you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of.”
    Having considered the evidence provided, I am satisfied that the operator had installed a suitable entrance sign at this location and this was sufficient to make motorists aware that the parking is managed on this particular piece of land.

    Additionally, Section 18.3 of the BPA Code of Practice states that: “Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand.” Having considered the signage in place, I am satisfied that the operator has installed a number of signs throughout the car park and these are sufficient to bring the specific terms and conditions to the motorists’ attention.
    In my view, these are “conspicuous”, “legible and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand.” The legal basis for the charge stems from the signage that the motorist has agreed to when parking their vehicle. By parking the vehicle on site, the motorist is agreeing to the terms and conditions of the site.
    The driver of the vehicle does not need to have read the terms and conditions of the contract to accept it. There is only the requirement that the driver is afforded the opportunity to read and understand the terms and conditions of the contract before accepting it. It is the driver’s responsibility to seek out the terms and conditions, and ensure they understand them, before agreeing to the contract and parking.

    The BPA Code of Practice contains guidelines for the use of ANPR cameras within Section 21. The parking operator states it fully complies with this. In relation to Section 21.1 the parking operator uses ANPR cameras in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. All signage contains the universally recognised symbol for the use of these cameras and it is made clear that ANPR technology is in use on site.

    Further the signage states; “We may contact the DVLA to request details of the vehicles registered keeper and may send a charge notice to the registered keeper by post”. I am satisfied with the parking operator’s signage at the site and therefore satisfied that they have complied with Section 21.1.
    Again, had the driver of the appellants vehicle have been unhappy with the terms I am satisfied that they would have been able to exit the site.

    With regards to the last point raised by the appellant I must clarify that I have already confirmed that the operator has demonstrated that it has the authorisation to erect signs at the site.

    After considering the evidence from both parties, I am satisfied the parking charge notice has been issued correctly and the operator has followed POFA to transfer liability to the keeper. Therefore, this appeal must be refused.
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Name Dropper
    Options
    Not a hope of reading that wall of text
    Please use paragraphs.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,346 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Options
    Further the appellant has stated that POFA 2012 has not been met. With regards to this point I would just confirm as I have above that I am satisfied that the operator has complied with the relevant provisions in order to pursue the appellant as the keeper of the vehicle.
    Can you upload the original NtK sent to you by Highview please. Redact personal data, but please leave the dates of the parking incident and the issue date of the NtK. Both sides please.

    NEWBIES - HOW TO UPLOAD LINKS TO PHOTOS/SCANS TO MSE

    To upload a photo/scan link, you first need to host it on a free photo hosting site (like Dropbox, Imurg or Tinypic), copy the URL, paste it here, but change the http to hxxp and we'll do the conversion. Newbies can't directly upload links to photos/scans until they've a few posts under their belt.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    Options
    Whatever conclusion PoPLA may come to, it is of little consequence, It is what a judge thinks that matters.

    IMO, if this went to court they would struggle to prove to a judge that you, a member of the gym, with a right to park, have so damaged them by not entering your VRN as to entitle them to £100 compensation for this very insignifixant breach of contract.

    Indeed, the judge may think that this is a very trifling matter, and the Law does not concern itself with trifles.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week, hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has even been suggested that some of these companies have links with organised crime.

    Watch the video of the Second Reading and committee stage in the House of Commons recently. MPs have a very low opinion of this industry.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-19/debates/2b90805c-bff8-4707-8bdc-b0bfae5a7ad5/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill(FirstSitting)

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by in the not too distant future.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Bean789
    Bean789 Posts: 10 Forumite
    Options
    Here is the NtK sorry for the bad quality but I had to use old photos as I don't have it with me right now;

    hxxp://i64.tinypic.com/hvtetz.jpg
    hxxp://i68.tinypic.com/14a979x.jpg

    I am definitly going to contact my MP they can't continue this practice!
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 247.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards