Satsuma Loans - Irresponsible Practice?

T-G-C
T-G-C Posts: 591 Forumite
First Post
This is more of a discussion rather than a rant, however I would like to address a serious flaw in Provident Finance's handling of Satsuma Loans' responsible lending practice.

I will keep this short and basic, to avoid confusion. To put it in simple terms, Satsuma Loans themselves claim on their website that two (2) is the maximum number of loans that can be active at once.

The evidence of this is here:

EV_1.png

Anyone who has an account with Satsuma Loans can independently check this for themselves, however the specific page detailing this appears to be locked from non-authenticated access.

Courtesy of the person who has shared this information with me, I can also provide a list of agreements which this particular person has with them, currently all three of them:

E2.png

This is a picture illustration only and their corresponding personally identifiable information has been removed before publishing. I can confirm however, that all three agreements were granted amounts exceeding that of £200.

For a creditor who claims to restrict lending to a specific number, their eligibility checking mechanism appears to have no recognition of the customer's current commitments. Aside from that, the credit assessment module should be taking these other loans into account, as part of a mandatory affordability assessment.

I would also like to share with you that the person who has come forward with this information has been landed into difficult circumstances with trying to pay these loans off. After their income being reduced unexpectedly, they are now stuck with three individual loans, all totaling high amounts due to the up-front interest slapped on the total repayable balance. They are keeping up with the monthly re-payments, but are stuck in a long-term commitment of these loans and can't commit their remaining income elsewhere.

I haven't been able to look into the legal side of this or whether the FCA, financial ombudsman or other related agencies would consider this irresponsible lending practices, however enticing someone who is potentially vulnerable or susceptible to borrowing with eligibility alerts about further loans, especially after stating that two is the maximum is bang out of order.

What are your thoughts about this and could Satsuma Loans be adding to the ever-growing problem of irresponsible lending on the market?
Advice provided from this account does not consist of any professional knowledge. For professional debt advice, please contact either National Debtline or StepChange. Advice may consist of personal experience, opinion and/or informational sources.
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Comments

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 35,242 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    When did they introduce the two loan maximum?

    Before or after your friend took out their third loan?
  • T-G-C
    T-G-C Posts: 591 Forumite
    First Post
    When did they introduce the two loan maximum?

    Before or after your friend took out their third loan?

    The information has been like that since the person became a customer, which was over 10 months ago.

    Even if it is a page which hasn't been updated, there is no alternative source on the site which states the number of loans granted is based on your credit history, therefore the overriding info for this is the referenced FAQ portion.
    Advice provided from this account does not consist of any professional knowledge. For professional debt advice, please contact either National Debtline or StepChange. Advice may consist of personal experience, opinion and/or informational sources.
  • boo_star
    boo_star Posts: 3,202 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    T-G-C wrote: »
    The information has been like that since the person became a customer, which was over 10 months ago.

    Even if it is a page which hasn't been updated, there is no alternative source on the site which states the number of loans granted is based on your credit history, therefore the overriding info for this is the referenced FAQ portion.

    Them going against their FAQ doesn't make it irresponsible lending. In fact a maximum of two rollovers meets the FCA guidelines.

    It looks, to me, like poor wording on their part.
  • dld2s
    dld2s Posts: 441 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Post Uniform Washer
    edited 2 July 2018 at 7:22AM
    boo_star wrote: »
    Them going against their FAQ doesn't make it irresponsible lending. In fact a maximum of two rollovers meets the FCA guidelines.

    It looks, to me, like poor wording on their part.


    Not sure I get you? you say FCA guidelines: 2 loans rollover, does this mean in effect you can have 4 loans?
  • foxy-stoat
    foxy-stoat Posts: 6,879 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Seems crazy that your friend applied for the third loan knowing full well that the lender only allows 2 loans at any one time.
  • T-G-C
    T-G-C Posts: 591 Forumite
    First Post
    edited 3 July 2018 at 4:36PM
    foxy-stoat wrote: »
    Seems crazy that your friend applied for the third loan knowing full well that the lender only allows 2 loans at any one time.

    I agree.

    However, it is even crazier that the lender has allowed someone to have a third loan, despite claiming the limit to be two at once. If this lender admitted that it was possible to have 3+ loans, perhaps the debtor wouldn't have opened an account with them? The debtor could have registered with them having the peace of mind that they can't have more than two loans with them at once, so they have been mislead in this aspect.

    Satsuma Loans are a direct lender and their automated decision making would include the previous loans, applications, credit file information and repayment history. There is no technical reason for a third loan being granted by mistake or as an oversight.

    It is the debtor's responsibility to ensure that their loan is affordable, but it is also the lender's responsibility to ensure credit is only granted when they are confident of the debtor's commitment to repay affordably and do not lead them into a cycle of debt. Three loans could be used consecutively to repay loans with more loans.
    Advice provided from this account does not consist of any professional knowledge. For professional debt advice, please contact either National Debtline or StepChange. Advice may consist of personal experience, opinion and/or informational sources.
  • T-G-C
    T-G-C Posts: 591 Forumite
    First Post
    boo_star wrote: »
    Them going against their FAQ doesn't make it irresponsible lending. In fact a maximum of two rollovers meets the FCA guidelines.

    It looks, to me, like poor wording on their part.

    Even if it is within FCA rules to grant a further two separate loans after the first one, totaling three, it is misleading for them to tell a debtor that the maximum is two at once and then entice them into more credit with a third after approval of the first or second.

    If they are compliant with the rules, their wording should clearly indicate that affordability may allow up-to three active loans at once. This may allow consumers to make a more educated decision about whether or not to use that particular lender. Some people may avoid them if they feel a third loan would be too tempting, therefore they aren't being made aware of it, hence potentially ending up in three loans worth of debt down the line, when they were originally told that they don't offer more than two.
    Advice provided from this account does not consist of any professional knowledge. For professional debt advice, please contact either National Debtline or StepChange. Advice may consist of personal experience, opinion and/or informational sources.
  • BrassicWoman
    BrassicWoman Posts: 3,202 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Mortgage-free Glee!
    what's the actual question here? Can I get out of paying? Can I pay less? Can I get them struck off?
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  • T-G-C
    T-G-C Posts: 591 Forumite
    First Post
    what's the actual question here? Can I get out of paying? Can I pay less? Can I get them struck off?

    You wouldn't be able to get the debt written off, it is still legally enforceable regardless.

    The question is whether it is legal and compliant for them to state on their website that the maximum loan threshold is two, but offer a third agreement later down the line.

    For someone who may be in a vulnerable position e.g lower income or financial difficulty, a third loan offering may be too temping to decline, thereby causing further debt problems.
    Advice provided from this account does not consist of any professional knowledge. For professional debt advice, please contact either National Debtline or StepChange. Advice may consist of personal experience, opinion and/or informational sources.
  • BrassicWoman
    BrassicWoman Posts: 3,202 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Mortgage-free Glee!
    T-G-C wrote: »
    You wouldn't be able to get the debt written off, it is still legally enforceable regardless.

    The question is whether it is legal and compliant for them to state on their website that the maximum loan threshold is two, but offer a third agreement later down the line.

    For someone who may be in a vulnerable position e.g lower income or financial difficulty, a third loan offering may be too temping to decline, thereby causing further debt problems.






    They also have a page listing debt advisory services


    https://www.satsumaloans.co.uk/money-worries/getting-advice


    So help for the vulnerable person who is presumabely an adult...


    This feels like a very theoretical question to me, "is it legal" can be yes/no but is totally irrelevant unless it leads to action.
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