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    Former MSE Lawrence
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Anne put the animals down?
    • #1
    • 6th Apr 10, 7:24 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Anne put the animals down? 6th Apr 10 at 7:24 PM
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Should Anne put the animals down?

    Anne's always been an animal lover and over the years has acquired many strays. She's got a pony, two goats, four dogs, three cats and a hamster - many getting on in years and with medical problems. A year ago she lost her job - her savings have gone, and she's struggling to keep her home. Her biggest cost is the animals' welfare & food. Nobody wants to take them.

    Click reply to have your say

    Previous MMDs: View All



    Update Note From Martin

    A quick response on the "this shouldn't be discussed its not appropriate" notes a few have listed.

    This is a more common situation than you think it originates from a similar (though no identical) question posed to me about what the options were for pets when the money had run out.

    In the past I once did a money makeover on a woman who's was massively overspending due to her animals and causing financial problems. As some in the thread have said they have been put in severe debt due to animal costs.

    Just because the consequences of this aren't nice - doesn't mean we don't need think how to deal with it.

    Being open to debate is important

    This is a pure money moral dilemma - putting animals down is not illegal. Financially not having the animals adds up, yet is it morally acceptible. It's a moral v a money situation - exactly the type of MMD many people need face.

    We live in a meat eating society - animals are killed for food all the time - the moral difference between that and putting an animal down so someone can afford to eat - is a relatively fine line. Different people draw conclusions on both sides of it. It's also worth noting at some point if she loses her home and is declared bankrupt the animals may be homesless and without food too.

    Of course its to be hoped sancturies and animal welfare charities would take the animals - indeed she is very obviously an animal lover as are many - and no one wants to think of animals suffering - and it will cause great emotion to get rid of them. Yet I've heard reports that especially old and sick animals can't always be catered for (though have no empirical evidence).

    Would it be different if it were a farmer who had livestock that couldn't sell and thus his choice was to cull them in order to cut costs?

    Why debate it?

    The point of the MMD is to make people think - to come up with a situation where different people will have opposing views and learn from each other.

    Hopefully anyone in a similar position will be able to learn from the tips, solutions and options given above.

    Please lets try and have a sensible rational debate about what some people face as a real economic and ethical reality.

    Martin

    PS Some animal shelters to help anyone in this position provided by people in this thread.

    DOGS

    Founded in 1891, Dogs Trust (formerly the National Canine Defence League) is the largest dog welfare charity in the UK. Our mission is to bring about the day when all dogs can enjoy a happy life, free from the threat of unnecessary destruction.
    http://www.dogstrust.org.uk/rehoming...s/default.aspx

    CATS

    Helping the Harder to Home Cats ('Top Cats' section) - Most rescues find they have a few cats that always seem to be overlooked, and often stay in care for months or even years. They may be elderly, have a medical condition, be very shy, or are simply passed by in favour of prettier or younger cats. Rescues can feature any 'harder to home' cats on our Top Cats section. This section has been very successful in finding new homes for many cats, some of whom had almost given up hope.
    http://www.catchat.org/adoption/index.html

    RODENTS

    Special notice should be given to Paws Here in Edinburgh - I support and regularly donate to this shelter and I take in their elderly rats when I can.
    http://www.animalrescuers.co.uk/html/rabferr.html

    FARM ANIMALS

    I am less familiar with farm animals but I have these links which may help:

    http://www.farmanimalrescue.org.uk/f...ry-history.htm
    Middlesex

    http://www.thefarmanimalsanctuary.co.uk/
    Worcestershire

    http://www.animalrescuers.co.uk/html/farm.html
    UK

    This site in general is really good for around the country shelters:
    http://www.animalrescuers.co.uk/





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    Last edited by MSE Martin; 08-04-2010 at 9:22 PM.
Page 7
  • cindyted
    Clive Woody You are sick and uncompassionate.
    Last edited by cindyted; 07-04-2010 at 4:45 PM. Reason: did not relate to anyone
    • aliasojo
    • By aliasojo 7th Apr 10, 4:32 PM
    • 22,264 Posts
    • 48,387 Thanks
    aliasojo
    Who is?





    Edit: And we're off.......
    Herman - MP for all!
    • Clive Woody
    • By Clive Woody 7th Apr 10, 4:34 PM
    • 4,907 Posts
    • 5,487 Thanks
    Clive Woody
    No, not at all. I was simply offering a reply to your earlier comment.
    Originally posted by aliasojo
    And most welcome is was too.

    "We act as though comfort and luxury are the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about” – Albert Einstein
    • aliasojo
    • By aliasojo 7th Apr 10, 4:36 PM
    • 22,264 Posts
    • 48,387 Thanks
    aliasojo
    And most welcome is was too.

    Originally posted by Clive Woody

    Thank you. Should I call you cindy?
    Herman - MP for all!
    • claire5005
    • By claire5005 7th Apr 10, 4:37 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 132 Thanks
    claire5005
    If you are referring to me then I can assure you I am not on a wind up, but simply trying to stop Enchantica from derailing this discussion by claiming hers is the only option.

    I hope this is clear.

    Originally posted by Clive Woody
    all you have achieved is to derail the discussion into a tit for tat row - you know "is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour"
    • reluctantworkingmum
    • By reluctantworkingmum 7th Apr 10, 4:37 PM
    • 126 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    reluctantworkingmum
    Of course not - she should continue getting deeper into debt which she will never be able to repay, then she will lose her house, become homeless and have the animals taken away ....when lots of readers will rush to look after them as they are old and in need of care (remembering of course that is actually quite traumatic for an elderly animal to change homes)
    Sometimes I really do wonder at the mentality of certain people....................
    • aliasojo
    • By aliasojo 7th Apr 10, 4:42 PM
    • 22,264 Posts
    • 48,387 Thanks
    aliasojo
    Sometimes I really do wonder at the mentality of certain people....................
    Originally posted by reluctantworkingmum
    I completely agree. Why dig out an old AE when you could just post under your regular ID? Never really understood that but everyone has their own 'mentality' I guess. No matter what the topic.
    Herman - MP for all!
  • harryhound
    I'm slightly bothered by the fact that my taxes subsidise these pension fund type organisations called animal charities, which in turn get all hot and bothered because they cannot reclaim a tax like VAT.

    Anybody know how much it costs to "put a pet to sleep" at a Vets?
    How much as a nation do we spend in veterinary charges treating the ailments of our pets?
    I would not be surprised to learn that it is more than we spend looking after the nation's livestock?
    I do know from practical experience that there is/was (?) a cartel in operation with restrictive rules about pinching each other's customers.
    Last edited by harryhound; 07-04-2010 at 4:53 PM.
  • cindyted
    Thank you. Should I call you cindy?
    Originally posted by aliasojo
    How come I fit in here??? I wasnt talking about you Aliasojo
  • fleagle21
    For all the sanctimonious people on here face reality. In the UK more money is given to animal charities every year than to children's charities. Equating putting an animal to death to killing children answers the question why animal charities receive more donations; people are out of touch and have the wrong priorities.
    Originally posted by NafUk
    I only give money to animal charities, WWF and the SSPCA - and wouldn't even consider giving money to childrens charities. In my opinion, children are catered for by the state, through the likes of child benefit and tax credits. And are catered for by the state completely when the parents insist on having more and more children, in some cases on purpose, knowing they cannot afford them but everyone else will pick up the tab. So I think enough of my money is pushed their way without voluntarily giving more.

    My dogs are my responsibility - I chose to have them, I need to look after them by any means possible. They would eat before me if money was short.
    I don't have kids, therefore shouldn't need to pay for them. How are my priorities wrong just because I choose to donate to animal charities rather than childrens?
    • reluctantworkingmum
    • By reluctantworkingmum 7th Apr 10, 4:50 PM
    • 126 Posts
    • 115 Thanks
    reluctantworkingmum
    I completely agree. Why dig out an old AE when you could just post under your regular ID? Never really understood that but everyone has their own 'mentality' I guess. No matter what the topic.
    Originally posted by aliasojo

    sorry alias ojo - you got that one wrong - afraid it is not an old AE...is actually my only ID.. have never needed more than one ....why do you have others????
  • st2000
    Put them to sleep
    I can't believe people's reaction to this thread, there is nothing immoral about asking this question. Euthanasia is far better than an uncertain future.

    I believe firmly that putting these animals to sleep is the best thing to do, both for her own sake and for the sake of the animals given they are old and infirm. It is unrealistic to think that all unwanted animals can be accommodated in sanctuaries, and far better to take responsibility for them and guarantee they will not fall into the wrong hands or be treated badly in the future. Death is not the worst thing.

    As a vet, I would provide support to rehome animals that were healthy if this was the owners wish, but if this was not appropriate and they were ill/old I would have no qualms about putting them down.
    • aliasojo
    • By aliasojo 7th Apr 10, 4:51 PM
    • 22,264 Posts
    • 48,387 Thanks
    aliasojo
    How come I fit in here??? I wasnt talking about you Aliasojo
    Originally posted by cindyted
    Ah, I see your edit. I understand now. Sorry.
    Herman - MP for all!
    • aliasojo
    • By aliasojo 7th Apr 10, 4:52 PM
    • 22,264 Posts
    • 48,387 Thanks
    aliasojo
    sorry alias ojo - you got that one wrong - afraid it is not an old AE...is actually my only ID.. have never needed more than one ....why do you have others????
    Originally posted by reluctantworkingmum
    Lol, I offer my post count as a defence. I talk a lot under my one and only guise.

    You don't chat much in 3 years, do you?

    Edit: Or 2 and a half.
    Herman - MP for all!
  • st2000
    Markob, that would be illegal and quite messy, particularly in the case of the pony. Not something I'd recommend.
    • The Wise One
    • By The Wise One 7th Apr 10, 4:59 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    The Wise One
    Should Anne put the animals down...?
    The short answer is "No".

    Anne should take advice from the RSPCA or her local animal sanctuary. All avenues for assessing the animals' chances of a comfortable life, free from cold, pain, fear and hunger, should be taken with a view to their being re-homed.

    Indeed, the decision should be taken out of Anne's hands if possible and the animals signed over to one of the above agencies who would leave Anne with hope for her pets and spare her any painful decisions.
    • claire5005
    • By claire5005 7th Apr 10, 5:00 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 132 Thanks
    claire5005
    As far as I'm aware it costs alot to get the animals put down so you should put a towel over their heads and hit them with a hammer.
    Originally posted by markob
    It might not be illegal to put down healthy animals but there are laws relating to animal cruelty. If you think this is a good way to put down animals I don't think I will like you as a person.
  • harryhound
    If you take animals in, you are responsible for their welfare, whilst you can afford it. Having said that, always keep a top predator, that way you can feed it with the rest of them....
    I cannot believe people are putting animals welfare ahead of a human. They had a good home while it lasted, now it's gone. Full stop.
    Originally posted by Talent
    I think there are laws against that sort of thing?

    I seem to remember going to a local pet farm to buy a gerbil.
    "What sort do you want?"
    - A cheep one - the runt will do.
    "Are you going to feed it to a snake?"
    - What me
    "We get a lot of people in here, looking for snake food"
    ..................
    .................
    It is very sad - the poor old python died anyway - just seemed to have lost the will to live, even when a gerbil scampered through his "jungle".
    Last edited by harryhound; 07-04-2010 at 5:10 PM.
  • st2000
    The short answer is "No".

    Anne should take advice from the RSPCA or her local animal sanctuary. All avenues for assessing the animals' chances of a comfortable life, free from cold, pain, fear and hunger, should be taken with a view to their being re-homed.

    Indeed, the decision should be taken out of Anne's hands if possible and the animals signed over to one of the above agencies who would leave Anne with hope for her pets and spare her any painful decisions.
    Originally posted by The Wise One

    Why should it be taken out of her hands? They are her animals and she has cared for them well but is no longer able to.

    For many people knowing an animal has been put to sleep offers far more peace of mind than wondering if it is being passed from pillar to post and cared for properly, and is in my opinion far more responsible than avoiding this difficult decision by palming animals with problems off on the nearest charity.

    It would be wrong to effectively villify someone for considering this as a reasonable way out of very serious problems.
    • Clive Woody
    • By Clive Woody 7th Apr 10, 5:20 PM
    • 4,907 Posts
    • 5,487 Thanks
    Clive Woody
    Thank you. Should I call you cindy?
    Originally posted by aliasojo
    I've been called most things over the years, but that is a new one on me

    You can call me Cindy if you like I shall not take offence


    "We act as though comfort and luxury are the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about” – Albert Einstein
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