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1 Big Car Park, 2 landowners, Valid parking ticket but Parking Charge Issued

191012141523

Comments

  • Kezza15s statement obviously follows the same shape as yours, setting out the details of your parties and case number but telling her story.

    You need a paragraph early on to the effect that she gives the statement to comment on the layout of the car park and signage that was visible on the dates that she visited.
  • claxtome
    claxtome Posts: 628 Forumite
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    Thanks very much Johnersh for your suggested rewording.
    It is now clear and concise now.

    Would I be correct in saying the 'drop hands' offer goes to the Claimant's solicitor not directly to the Claimant?
  • Indeed. Once a party instructs a lawyer everything goes to the lawyer....
  • Kezza15
    Kezza15 Posts: 27 Forumite
    Here is a draft for my witness statement. Any suggestions/corrections welcome.

    IN THE ST HELENS COUNTY COURT
    CLAIM NO. **********
    Claimant ************
    Defendant ************

    WITNESS STATEMENT

    I am (name) of (address) a witness in this claim. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge and recent experience in court.

    1. I received a PCN from ES Parking for not displaying a valid ticket. I purchased a ticket at the entrance to ********** opposite ************ then drove to find a space, parked and displayed the ticket. Upon returning to the vehicle I found the PCN claiming I had not displayed a valid ticket for this Car Park.
    2. I appealed the PCN due to their being no boundary, demarcation or signage to show the leaving of one car park and entering another.
    3. The appeals were rejected by ES Parking and the IAS resulting in the small claims court action, claim number D4GF90W8.
    4. On 29th September 2017 Judge xxxxxx dismissed the claim due to the claimant not providing proof that I was aware I was entering a new contract. The signage was insufficient and the fact that rubble has now been placed on the route at the point of change of land ownership shows one of the landowners has now tried to correct this issue in some way.

    I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

    Signed
    Dated
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,404 Forumite
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    Is claxtome's Court St Helen's like yours was? Just checking.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • claxtome
    claxtome Posts: 628 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker First Anniversary
    Yes it is :)
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,404 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Jolly good. It would seem they are doomed...!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • The statement above needs amendment to say in para 2 or thereabouts:

    it subsequently became apparent on appealing to the parking company that there were two adjacent plots of land, which were being operated as car parks. I did not appreciate it at the time as it all appeared to be one large car park to me. I then appealed...

    The judgment is NOT the killer point (although of course it helps. Fingers crossed for the same DJ). The killer point is that you have an independent witness who can say that there was nothing to distinguish the two plots of land and any signs didn't look much different to one another. TELL.THE.STORY.

    The final para merely needs to say on [date] judge XXX dismissed the claim by X parking company holding that the signage was inadequate to form a contract with me, given the route I drove into the car park. (oh and make sure that this is the same entry point as you - or delete this reference)
  • Got a suggestion to make this much shorter and easier. Can she just do a very short statement exhibiting her statement in her own case and making reference to the relevant paragraphs where she explains the lack of signage/the later addition of the rubble making it impossible to pass to and from the two parts of the carpark?
    I am (name) of (address) a witness in this claim. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge and recent experience in court.


    Something like this:


    I [name] of [address] will say as follows:


    1. On [date] a claim against me by the same Claimant and relating to the same car park as in this case was heard by DJ [name] in this court ("my case"). The case number was [xxx].


    2. I defended my case on the basis that the Claimant's signage was inadequate and there was, in particular, no signage or barrier to indicate to drivers parking there that one part of the car park was council controlled, and the other was controlled by the Claimant, and that each was subject to different terms and conditions. The lack of any demarcating feature or barrier was later remedied after I had received a PCN from the Claimant, when a line of rubble was placed along the boundary separating the two parts of the car park and preventing vehicles from moving freely between them.


    3. I understand from the Defendant in this case that he relies on very same defences and factual matters.


    4. Exhibited hereto marked [initials xx1] is the witness statement I filed in my case. I draw the court's attention to paragraphs [xxxxx] of my Statement which provide detailed information about the matters set out in paragraph 2 above.


    5. I attended court for the hearing on [date] and the Claimant was able (and did) challenge my defence and my evidence. Having listened to all arguments, the court accepted my evidence and dismissed the claim.


    I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

    Signed
    Dated




    I'd send this asap to the Claimant, not just with your drop hands offer (because you need to send it on an "open" basis, not just "without prejudice"). Say you realise it is being served late, but there is still x days until the hearing and it contains nothing new, because they will already be fully aware of its contents since it was served on them [x] weeks ago by the other Claimant, and their representative was present in court on [date of hearing].


    I've put in the bit about the other poster being present in court and her evidence being accepted in the hope that the DJ won't disregard it if she can't come to give evidence. ie her evidence has already been "tested" by the Claimant in court and the court has already accepted it as true. If a witness doesn't turn up, court has the discretion to attach as much weight as it likes to the evidence, so you rely on this to say it should attach weight to it and not disregard it.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • claxtome
    claxtome Posts: 628 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker First Anniversary
    edited 2 October 2017 at 12:27PM
    Thank you Jonersh for helping with the wording. I can't write it for her but wanted to help where I can->
    The final para merely needs to say on [date] judge XXX dismissed the claim by X parking company holding that the signage was inadequate to form a contract with me, given the route I drove into the car park. (oh and make sure that this is the same entry point as you - or delete this reference)
    Kezza15 The route I took can be seen by looking at the map in the Evidence doc - link below to folder. I can't imagine you didn't take the same route as me from what you have said in your thread->
    https://db.tt/cE8UQOqCyE


    LoadsofChildren123 thanks for replying too. I am 99% sure that Kezza15 didn't submit a formal witness statement and just showed some photos and documents on the day to the Judge as no one turned up at her hearing from Claimant's side. I take it she could refer to her defence statement instead and use an amended version of your post?
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