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NCP Scamming Motorists Using Pole Mounted ANPR without Planning Permission

Good morning.

Here is an interesting case we find ourselves in.

7 months ago (April 2018) we drove into a private car park managed by NCP. Since November/January 2017/2018 NCP have been using ANPR with the new ticket machines that are connected to these pole mounted ANPR's. You drive in and the ANPR records your vehicle registration. You drive out and the ANPR records your leaving time. So far so good... BUT here is our story.

About 1 week ago we received a Claim Form for an alleged parking infringement that happend 7 months ago. The date on the claim form was delivered to us 9 fricking days later which meant we had to act quick. We owe £ 242.40

We did NOT receive any warning letters, Notice to Keeper or any other documents. Absolutely nothing. So, we cant appeal, challenge through the normal process all we can do is Acknowledge the Service giving us 28 days on service of Claim Form letter.

HOWEVER, after some probing by myself it has now been confirmed by the planning authority a few weeks ago at the Council, NCP have never applied for planning permission to have these ANPR cameras, not just in this car park but in another and are in planning breach which has led them to apply for retrospective planning.

We have been able to trace this alleged parking infringement when we drove in and waited for a space. We were there waiting for no more than 15 mins however the ANPR i assume have us not paying. We have also established from the local authority the signs do not meet the signage regulation, the fencing withing the car park was also erected without planning.

Some of the signs in the car park state, "Have you Paid and Displayed" and the answer would be yes if we had parked. However the ANPR ticket machines on the request by NCP require you to put in your registration. If the registration does not match the one for your car or you make a mistake with a number or letter then you are almost certain, NCP will apply to the DVLA to obtain your details.

We believe whilst an accredited car parking organisation can apply, we dont think NCP was reasonable when doing so, especially as NCP did not have permission to have the ANPR in the car park and then use that information to apply for information from the DVLA. We cant find any legislation that it is a "Lawful Requirement" that you enter your exact registration. NCP are offering a service for you to park, pay and display. We would always pay have and displayed if we parked.

We feel that NCP have breached the data act by obtaining keeper details unlawfully because NCP do not have planning permission to have these ANPR cameras at the said location. We believe the ticket machines, even if the signage states you may receive a penalty if you dont input your correct vehicle details to be flawed because, again there is no legislation that we can find to say it is an offence not to input this data as long as you have paid but we understand if you dont follow NCP rules you will ultimately receive a fine.

So, this appears to be a scam from a accredited operator that appears not to act within the law? Our concern is, when we have paid and displayed I have never used my registration, I have always used 0000000 and then displayed. The keypad on the ticket is very hard to see and even with my reading glasses on it is very difficult for me, so hence why i use the above. I have also been able to establish the land owner was not aware, they did not have planning etc.

Your help, questions, would be most appreciated please before I submit my defense online:)?

Lazy
«13456710

Comments

  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,223 Forumite
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    edited 30 October 2018 at 11:19AM
    Start by complaining to the landowner and ask them to cancel this. If not, you will require them to attend court as a witness as they are the principle in this and are responsible for the actions of their agents.

    I would assume that NCP don't have advertising consent for their signs either which is a criminal offence. You should get written confirmation of this from your local planning department. See my next post regarding this.

    As far as I know, nobody has ever won on lack of planning/advertising consent at appeal, but it would be interesting to test this in court.

    Have you alerted the local and national press? The Daily Wail, for all their failings, are very keen to report this sort of thing.

    At the moment you are stuck with defending the claim. Follow the guide to court from post 2 of the NEWBIES that has a step by step walk through, but you should also be hammering the landowner for letting this happen.

    I have to say, I don't understand why anyone would deliberately enter the incorrect reg number when parking. That's just asking for trouble.

    Please also complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,223 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    edited 30 October 2018 at 11:16AM
    Post 19 of this thread appears relevant to your case.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5539549

    … and post 15 of this thread.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5561645
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
  • fisherjim
    fisherjim Posts: 6,021 Forumite
    Photogenic First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    lazy wrote: »
    We cant find any legislation that it is a "Lawful Requirement" that you enter your exact registration.


    There isn't, they operate on private land, in an unregulated industry where they make up their own rules .

    lazy wrote: »
    Our concern is, when we have paid and displayed I have never used my registration, I have always used 0000000 and then displayed.


    If you follow that theory you will always get a PCN in any ANPR controlled car park, the "pay and display" means nothing in an ANPR car park which are mostly unpatrolled.
    Being scammers, you are one of the reasons they thrive!
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    I assume this claim was from BWLegal who at present are NCP's favourite very dodgy legal

    You don't owe £242.40 .... BWLegal add on fake charges to extort money from you.

    The BPA should be made aware of this as NCP are approved members

    Steve Clark steve.c@britishparking.co.uk
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,336 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    Originally Posted by lazy
    Our concern is, when we have paid and displayed I have never used my registration, I have always used 0000000 and then displayed.
    Why when it asks for the VRM (registration details)? You're just asking for trouble.

    The ANPR camera will record your VRM, then PPC's computer links between the ANPR and P&D machines will reconcile VRMs input against VRMs logged by the camera. Any mismatches - PCN in the post!
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • lazy
    lazy Posts: 51 Forumite
    Correct. They do not have advertising consent for their signs. (confirmed by Council) I will contact the press and see if anyone replies back to me. The Daily Wail? Will google them. Will contact landowner, MP etc

    Lazy
  • lazy
    lazy Posts: 51 Forumite
    beamerguy wrote: »
    I assume this claim was from BWLegal who at present are NCP's favourite very dodgy legal

    You don't owe £242.40 .... BWLegal add on fake charges to extort money from you.

    The BPA should be made aware of this as NCP are approved members

    Steve Clark steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    YES, BW Legal
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    lazy wrote: »
    Correct. They do not have advertising consent for their signs. (confirmed by Council) I will contact the press and see if anyone replies back to me. The Daily Wail? Will google them. Will contact landowner, MP etc

    Lazy

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-6251825/Fight-against-private-parking-tickets-campaign-stop-sharks.html

    editor@thisismoney.co.uk
  • lazy wrote: »
    Correct. They do not have advertising consent for their signs. (confirmed by Council) I will contact the press and see if anyone replies back to me. The Daily Wail? Will google them. Will contact landowner, MP etc

    Lazy


    No need to Google, I think Fruitcake means Daily Mail :D


    Threatening Landowner with 'court attendance by them' might well kill this off, it worked for me!!!
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,223 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Anniversary First Post
    lazy wrote: »
    Correct. They do not have advertising consent for their signs. (confirmed by Council) I will contact the press and see if anyone replies back to me. The Daily Wail? Will google them. Will contact landowner, MP etc

    Lazy


    aka, The Daily Mail, who (used to) refer to themselves as The Daily Wail in one of their regular cartoons.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister. :D
    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
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