Land Registry questions

pdd · 24 January 2018 at 11:35PM

Hi,
I wondered if you would be able to offer me any advise. I'll give you the short version.
I am currently STC on my leasehold maisonette
my buyers solicitor is adamant that a deed of variation is required as the title deeds do not make show a very small part of the basement yard area. My solicitor says that the title deeds are adequate in description and plan. This has serious potential for the sale to fall through.
My solicitor advises that even if the freeholder agreed to the variation (freeholder is restrictive , different issue) the land registry wouldn't be likely to accept the application as the title plan is only meant to depict general boundaries.
Does this sound correct? I feel stuck in the middle and distressed at the potential for losing the sale for this issue

Mant thanks for any help

Land_Registry · 25 January 2018 at 7:34AM

pdd wrote: »

Hi,
I wondered if you would be able to offer me any advise. I'll give you the short version.
I am currently STC on my leasehold maisonette
my buyers solicitor is adamant that a deed of variation is required as the title deeds do not make show a very small part of the basement yard area. My solicitor says that the title deeds are adequate in description and plan. This has serious potential for the sale to fall through.
My solicitor advises that even if the freeholder agreed to the variation (freeholder is restrictive , different issue) the land registry wouldn't be likely to accept the application as the title plan is only meant to depict general boundaries.
Does this sound correct? I feel stuck in the middle and distressed at the potential for losing the sale for this issue

Mant thanks for any help

If we received an application to register a Deed of V re the existing lease i'd expect us to register it. We wouldn't reject it as unnecessary if both sides had deemed that it was and had drawn it up correctly.

General boundaries relate to our title plans. So such a Deed can vary the lease but not lead to a change in the registered extent. The lease plan and title plan serve different purposes

The real issue seems to be whether the lease demises the actual extent being used/occupied/treated as owned. That's a matter for landlord/tenant and their solicitors to discuss and agree on.

mlj69 · 29 January 2018 at 2:46PM

Hello
I can,t find an answer to our family problem on the internet or from a rather useless solicitor! And I,m hoping someone on here might be able to help, or point me in the right direction!
My brother in law has owned the family home since.1984. He lives in the house with his sister and father. He was declared bankrupt in1988. There was no forced sale of the house, at the time or through the Enterprise Act.
We have got a copy of the deeds. And it says there was a caution in favour of the Trustee in bankruptcy with a land charges ref number..
My brother in law is in very bad health, and not expected to life for much longer, and our Concern is that once my brother in law dies, his sister and elderly father will be evicted from the house, so my question is does my brother in law own the house or do the bankruptcy people own it. And on my brother in laws death force a sale to get what ever money is owned from the bankruptcy.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give as much information as I could.
Thank you very much for reading and any help or guidance would be very much appreciate.
Kind regards
Samantha

G_M · 29 January 2018 at 3:07PM

mlj69 wrote: »

We have got a copy of the deeds. And it says there was a caution in favour of the Trustee in bankruptcy with a land charges ref number..

..... .....so my question is does my brother in law own the house or do the bankruptcy people own it. And on my brother in laws death force a sale to get what ever money is owned from the bankruptcy.

I assume by 'Deeds' you mean the property is registered with the LR and it is the LR Title you are looking at.

Yes your brother in law owns the property, as indicated by his name on the registered Title.

However 'the bankruptcy people' can claim the moneyy owed tto them from the sale or transfer of the property which will happen when Probate is obtained following his death.

It is possibe his sister and father could claim beneficial ownership, esp if they have contributed to the property, but I advise you to take legal advice on this point.

Land_Registry · 30 January 2018 at 8:43AM

mlj69 wrote: »

Hello
I can,t find an answer to our family problem on the internet or from a rather useless solicitor! And I,m hoping someone on here might be able to help, or point me in the right direction!
My brother in law has owned the family home since.1984. He lives in the house with his sister and father. He was declared bankrupt in1988. There was no forced sale of the house, at the time or through the Enterprise Act.
We have got a copy of the deeds. And it says there was a caution in favour of the Trustee in bankruptcy with a land charges ref number..
My brother in law is in very bad health, and not expected to life for much longer, and our Concern is that once my brother in law dies, his sister and elderly father will be evicted from the house, so my question is does my brother in law own the house or do the bankruptcy people own it. And on my brother in laws death force a sale to get what ever money is owned from the bankruptcy.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give as much information as I could.
Thank you very much for reading and any help or guidance would be very much appreciate.
Kind regards
Samantha

As G_M posts if the property is registered then the legal owner is shown in the B Proprietorship Register.
The caution reflects the interest of the trustee in bankruptcy so it's really specialist advice you need as to how that interest remains and can be dealt with in any given circumstance
Our Practice Guide covers the subject of Personal Insolvency and explains how such interests are protected and how they might be removed also. But it's the wider advice around your brother's bankruptcy I suspect that needs investigating.

Davesnave · 30 January 2018 at 9:15AM

May I ask the Land Registry Rep to have a look at the thread entitled: Misrepresentation AND failed local searches

I feel that some offcial input would now be very helpful there.

Thank you.

mlj69 · 30 January 2018 at 3:09PM

G_M wrote: »

I assume by 'Deeds' you mean the property is registered with the LR and it is the LR Title you are looking at.

Yes your brother in law owns the property, as indicated by his name on the registered Title.

However 'the bankruptcy people' can claim the moneyy owed tto them from the sale or transfer of the property which will happen when Probate is obtained following his death.

It is possibe his sister and father could claim beneficial ownership, esp if they have contributed to the property, but I advise you to take legal advice on this point.

Hi thank you very much for your advice. Yes think we need to see a solicitor

mlj69 · 30 January 2018 at 3:31PM

Hi Land Registry
thank you very much for your advice.and links. Trying to understand them! I,ll inform the rest of the family, and arrange to see a solicitor

joop · 30 January 2018 at 4:11PM

Adverse Possession
At the border of my garden there is a strip of land between my land and the gardens of a terrace of what used to be council flats. Years ago this was a footpath between these properties, but has not been for at least the last 25 years that I have owned mine. I believe this strip is listed as registered to the local council. What do I have to do to make it officially 'mine' as I am hoping to sell the property and would like this on the title plan.

p.s. - thank you for your help with my previous enquiries about tenants in common and unilateral notices. All sorted now thanks to this forum and your lovely customer services!

Land_Registry · 30 January 2018 at 5:03PM

joop wrote: »

Adverse Possession
At the border of my garden there is a strip of land between my land and the gardens of a terrace of what used to be council flats. Years ago this was a footpath between these properties, but has not been for at least the last 25 years that I have owned mine. I believe this strip is listed as registered to the local council. What do I have to do to make it officially 'mine' as I am hoping to sell the property and would like this on the title plan.

p.s. - thank you for your help with my previous enquiries about tenants in common and unilateral notices. All sorted now thanks to this forum and your lovely customer services!

If it's registered then the registration requirements are covered in PGs 4 and 5 depending on when your claim started.

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