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  • FIRST POST
    • EmmaH337
    • By EmmaH337 19th Oct 19, 10:33 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    EmmaH337
    Won’t sell me car as I don’t want finance
    • #1
    • 19th Oct 19, 10:33 PM
    Won’t sell me car as I don’t want finance 19th Oct 19 at 10:33 PM
    Hi MSE,

    I hope this is in the right place...

    So I am in the market for a used car. I went to see the car I hoped to buy on Thursday this week. All good, slept on it and decided I’d go back to the dealer yesterday (Friday) to buy the car for just over 20k

    I rang the dealer first thing Friday morning as it is an hour+ drive and just wanted to make sure the car was definitely still available, on the extreme off chance it was sold between 17:30-20:00 on Thursday night after I left. A different salesman answered and I explained the situation. He kept talking about finance which I had to keep telling him I did not need and I also did not need any ‘extras’ as my family own a car garage, I simply wanted to come pay the 20k and drive away today. I was told the salesman I was dealing with would call me back when he got in.

    I received a call at 13:30 to tell me the car had been sold....on Thursday night after I left.

    Being a financial fraud investigator for the past 15 years I couldn’t help but feel suspicious. I felt like it was because I didn’t want finance or extras.

    I just so happen to have a good work colleague who lives very close to the dealership. He called in to see if the car was still available...and guess what, it is. This was confirmed with the salesman. It is still listed on Autotrader and their website.

    This is a large and UK wide dealership by the way.

    Has anything illegal occurred here?

    Thank you
Page 4
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 22nd Oct 19, 9:03 AM
    • 19,675 Posts
    • 12,340 Thanks
    motorguy
    If there is a cap put on finance rates, then it won't affect whether Joe Average gets offered 2%-3%-4%-5%.

    It'll be Gary BadCredit not getting offered any finance at all, rather than the likes of...
    https://www.pegasuspersonalfinance.co.uk/car-finance-bad-credit/

    You want to get all over-emotive with melodramatic talk about "usury"? It's not the salesman in the dealership bumping a few percentage points on the finance...
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Its not a cap on the rates being proposed, its a flat rate commission irrespective of the rate thats being proposed.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 22nd Oct 19, 9:06 AM
    • 26,345 Posts
    • 26,217 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Its not a cap on the rates being proposed, its a flat rate commission irrespective of the rate thats being proposed.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Yes, I know. I was replying to the specific bit I quoted.
    • Penelopa.Pitstop
    • By Penelopa.Pitstop 22nd Oct 19, 10:16 AM
    • 627 Posts
    • 232 Thanks
    Penelopa.Pitstop
    As somebody else said they're probably worried about money laundering... unless you're absolutely loaded not many people have 20k cash for a car so maybe this particular branch isnt used to having such high cash sales.
    Originally posted by FtbDreaming
    People are paying by cash for much more expensive cars. There's nothing strange about it. They don't bring pile of cash, just use debit card.

    I told dealer that I can consider finance deal if there's some incentive. Thinking of course, that I will pay it off straight away. He said, no incentive and didn't push for any finance deal. The same at other dealer two years later.

    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 22nd Oct 19, 10:24 AM
    • 19,675 Posts
    • 12,340 Thanks
    motorguy
    People are paying by cash for much more expensive cars. There's nothing strange about it. They don't bring pile of cash, just use debit card.

    I told dealer that I can consider finance deal if there's some incentive. Thinking of course, that I will pay it off straight away. He said, no incentive and didn't push for any finance deal. The same at other dealer two years later.
    Originally posted by Penelopa.Pitstop
    Incentives tend to run on new cars and are manufacturer based. So there might be a "contribution" from the manufacturer to use their finance scheme. That's where you'd win in terms of taking out the finance and cancelling it.

    Used cars there tends not to be - sometimes a manufacturer will do it for Approved Used stock. At the time i bought my last (year old) Passat it was Ł1,000 contribution and the time before that with a Golf it was two free services.

    Whilst the salesman and dealer will get commission for you taking finance, its rarely significant enough for them to extra discount the car because of it.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • Jumblebumble
    • By Jumblebumble 22nd Oct 19, 11:53 AM
    • 463 Posts
    • 178 Thanks
    Jumblebumble
    I think anyone who is talking about money laundering may be confusing paying cash with paying a full amount via a traceable bank transfer.
    HMRC have a registration scheme and I struggle to believe any car dealer chain would not be on it as I imagine they would be selling to fleet and leasing companies as well and I doubt they would let that business walk away.
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/money-laundering-regulations-high-value-dealer-registration

    Much more likely as other poster have pointed out that on a rare car the dealer wants the finance commission and who can in any way blame them as if they don't they might as well go and burn a few Ł50 notes
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 22nd Oct 19, 8:34 PM
    • 8,753 Posts
    • 5,487 Thanks
    buglawton
    You missed a word out.

    The issue is / was that dealers often get a higher commission for selling a product with a higher interest rate. The FCA change means that from next year it must be a flat rate.

    Theres no "scandal". Although that wont stop the ambulance chasing lawyers trying to make it one. Oh, and the tabloids - expect the Daily Mail to have pictures of someone standing beside a car with a sad face after buying finance at 3.9% rather than 2.9% and detail on how much this has impacted their lives.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    The FCA's focus is on used car finance where manufacturers don't offer fairytale interest rates. So as the MSE itself has said, punters could be paying 8-13%. Did you have an agenda for playing this issue down?
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 22nd Oct 19, 9:42 PM
    • 19,675 Posts
    • 12,340 Thanks
    motorguy
    The FCA's focus is on used car finance where manufacturers don't offer fairytale interest rates. So as the MSE itself has said, punters could be paying 8-13%. Did you have an agenda for playing this issue down?
    Originally posted by buglawton
    Its focus this particular legislative change is on car finance, not specifically used car finance.

    https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/consultation-papers/cp19-28-motor-finance-discretionary-commission-models-and-consumer-credit-commission-disclosure

    I'm not playing the issue down, i'm bringing it back down from the heady heights of being a "scandal" which is where you pitched it. It isnt. Its a correction of behaviours, thats all.

    And interestingly, an analyst from PwC noted "'Although we expect firms to comply with the spirit of the changes, it could result in unintended consequences, including increased flat-fee commission payments, car prices and bundled product costs."

    So may not necessarily be a "win" for consumers.

    Also, an AA spokesman said "'The FCA has concluded, quite rightly, that there is no inherent problem with car finance products themselves. "

    No scandal, no com-pen-say-shun for Daily Mail readers.

    [insert sad face picture here]
    Last edited by motorguy; 22-10-2019 at 10:05 PM.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 22nd Oct 19, 10:52 PM
    • 26,345 Posts
    • 26,217 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Did you have an agenda for playing this issue down?
    Originally posted by buglawton
    Ah, the old "You don't agree with me, so you MUST BE ONE OF THEM!" line...
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 23rd Oct 19, 12:19 AM
    • 8,753 Posts
    • 5,487 Thanks
    buglawton
    Its focus this particular legislative change is on car finance, not specifically used car finance.

    https://www.fca.org.uk/publications/consultation-papers/cp19-28-motor-finance-discretionary-commission-models-and-consumer-credit-commission-disclosure

    I'm not playing the issue down, i'm bringing it back down from the heady heights of being a "scandal" which is where you pitched it. It isnt. Its a correction of behaviours, thats all.

    And interestingly, an analyst from PwC noted "'Although we expect firms to comply with the spirit of the changes, it could result in unintended consequences, including increased flat-fee commission payments, car prices and bundled product costs."

    So may not necessarily be a "win" for consumers.

    Also, an AA spokesman said "'The FCA has concluded, quite rightly, that there is no inherent problem with car finance products themselves. "

    No scandal, no com-pen-say-shun for Daily Mail readers.

    [insert sad face picture here]
    Originally posted by motorguy
    I brought up a sobering report by the Money Box programme where facts were stated such as, new car finance interest rates are strongly influenced by the manufacturers and are not seen by the FCA as a problem.

    What the FCA sees as a problem is used car finance where dealer commission is earned in proportion to interest rate and amount borrowed. The higher and the bigger, the better for commission. The FCA has found reason to act and things will therefore change.

    Not sure why this sobering news has caused such an emotional reaction...
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 23rd Oct 19, 8:05 AM
    • 19,675 Posts
    • 12,340 Thanks
    motorguy
    I brought up a sobering report by the Money Box programme where facts were stated such as, new car finance interest rates are strongly influenced by the manufacturers and are not seen by the FCA as a problem.

    What the FCA sees as a problem is used car finance where dealer commission is earned in proportion to interest rate and amount borrowed. The higher and the bigger, the better for commission. The FCA has found reason to act and things will therefore change.

    Not sure why this sobering news has caused such an emotional reaction...
    Originally posted by buglawton
    The use of "sobering" is not an emotional reaction then? And your use of the word "scandal" emotive? No?

    No emotional reaction on my part though - merely pointing out its NOT a scandal. Nor is PCP, nor is car salesmen and dealerships making a profit. None of those are scandals.

    There may be corrective measures along the way - and that may a good thing - but there may also be consequences to those measures, as pointed out by PWC.

    Interesting though that after what i think has been a 2 year investigation, the FCA has recommended what has amounted to a few minor tweaks, rather than the massive overhaul predicted by some.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
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