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  • FIRST POST
    • OceanSound
    • By OceanSound 30th Jul 19, 2:46 PM
    • 761Posts
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    OceanSound
    Wealthify - maximum gains and losses you've noticed
    • #1
    • 30th Jul 19, 2:46 PM
    Wealthify - maximum gains and losses you've noticed 30th Jul 19 at 2:46 PM
    What maximum gains and losses have you seen when keeping track of your plan and what is the maximum time period it's lasted?

    I've just signed up for the ethical theme, with Tentative investment style.

    Didn't pick the ISA, instead went for the General Investment Account plan type.

    Initial investment of 300 with 20 monthly payments to follow.

    What was your theme, style, plan type, Initial investment, monthly payment amount etc.?

    and how often do you check the fund value and growth?
Page 1
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 30th Jul 19, 3:17 PM
    • 5,778 Posts
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    Alexland
    • #2
    • 30th Jul 19, 3:17 PM
    • #2
    • 30th Jul 19, 3:17 PM
    Wealthify has only been around since April-16 which is no where near a full market cycle so what people have seen recently isn't going to be very representative of the volatility you would see if you stayed for the long term 15+ years.

    Boring Money do some short term comparisons of the Robo charges and performance. The punchline is that you would do better with a low cost mixed asset fund (medium risk) or tracker fund (high risk) from Vangaurd, Blackrock, etc.

    On the low risk options you would even have done better with a Cash ISA.

    https://www.boringmoney.co.uk/learn/learning-paths/meet-the-robos/

    Alex
    • james michael
    • By james michael 30th Jul 19, 3:24 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    james michael
    • #3
    • 30th Jul 19, 3:24 PM
    • #3
    • 30th Jul 19, 3:24 PM
    J P Morgan offer 3% on a fixed 1 year bond . Are they fully FSCS protected? . Are they trustworthy? What do you know about them?
    • OceanSound
    • By OceanSound 30th Jul 19, 3:33 PM
    • 761 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    OceanSound
    • #4
    • 30th Jul 19, 3:33 PM
    • #4
    • 30th Jul 19, 3:33 PM
    Wealthify has only been around since April-16 which is no where near a full market cycle so what people have seen recently isn't going to be very representative of the volatility you would see if you stayed for the long term 15+ years.

    Boring Money do some short term comparisons of the Robo charges and performance. The punchline is that you would do better with a low cost mixed asset fund (medium risk) or tracker fund (high risk) from Vangaurd, Blackrock, etc.

    On the low risk options you would even have done better with a Cash ISA.

    https://www.boringmoney.co.uk/learn/learning-paths/meet-the-robos/

    Alex
    Originally posted by Alexland
    Thanks.

    I just want to stay with Wealthify long enough for the 40 clearscore incentive.

    Just wondering if a downturn could eat in to the incentive, and worse, the 400 investment.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 30th Jul 19, 4:02 PM
    • 5,778 Posts
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    Alexland
    • #5
    • 30th Jul 19, 4:02 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Jul 19, 4:02 PM
    J P Morgan offer 3% on a fixed 1 year bond . Are they fully FSCS protected? . Are they trustworthy? What do you know about them?
    Originally posted by james michael
    You can start your own thread on this topic in the main Savings & Investments forum with more information about how you became aware of this. It's probably either an investment product carrying risk or an outright scam. Stick with the MSE savings besy buy table for FSCS protected products.

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/savings-accounts-best-interest/

    Just wondering if a downturn could eat in to the incentive, and worse, the 400 investment.
    Originally posted by OceanSound
    I just annonymously started to setup a Wealthify Tentative Ethical portfolio and it gave an asset allocation with roughly 30% equities (shares) and 70% fixed income (bonds). This is very low risk but yes it could drop by more than 10% in certain adverse market conditions. It would be particularly sensitive to interest rate increases depending on the duration of the bonds.

    Alex
    • sendu
    • By sendu 30th Jul 19, 4:23 PM
    • 112 Posts
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    sendu
    • #6
    • 30th Jul 19, 4:23 PM
    • #6
    • 30th Jul 19, 4:23 PM
    Just wondering if a downturn could eat in to the incentive, and worse, the 400 investment.
    Originally posted by OceanSound
    Certainly it could, as with any stock market investment. One of the Wealthify portfolios was down nearly 8% over a 1 year period in 2018, for example (according to that comparison page; I didn't check myself). I'd say that sort of fluctuation is to be expected for such a short time period.

    If you invested 400 and they gave you 40 on top, and then it went down 8% again just when you wanted to take your money out, you'd come out with a ~4 profit. If it went down further than 8%, you'd make a loss.

    You could also get lucky and make some kind of decent return, however.

    It's unfortunate that that comparison webpage didn't cover longer time periods, because it's only really then that you see how abysmal these robo-advisor portfolios are.

    Wealthify claim their lifetime best performance (over 3 years) was +25.5%.

    If you had invested in a global index tracker over the same period, you'd have made about 46%. Comparing more established robo-advisors over longer periods shows the same story. They all greatly underperform the average stock market return.

    Now, as per the comparison page, the negative swing of a global index tracker could be larger than that of a particular robo portfolio in a particular short time period. But if you're after a long term investment, your future self will thank you if you switch from robos as soon as you're able.
    • quirkydeptless
    • By quirkydeptless 30th Jul 19, 4:59 PM
    • 394 Posts
    • 418 Thanks
    quirkydeptless
    • #7
    • 30th Jul 19, 4:59 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Jul 19, 4:59 PM
    I was investing 1 a month to furnish a DD. My 10 invested in an adventurous GIA had made 0.54, 8.11% according to the Wealthify site

    I'm currently in the process of closing it, as I no longer need the DD.

    I did find my robo-IFA's behaviour a little disturbing though


    Last edited by quirkydeptless; 30-07-2019 at 5:07 PM.
    This is not investment advice.
    Your money may go "down and up and down and up and down and up and down ... down and up and down and up and down and up and down ... I got all tricked up and came up to this thing, lookin' so fire hot, a twenty out of ten..."
    • OceanSound
    • By OceanSound 30th Jul 19, 5:26 PM
    • 761 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    OceanSound
    • #8
    • 30th Jul 19, 5:26 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Jul 19, 5:26 PM
    .........
    I just annonymously started to setup a Wealthify Tentative Ethical portfolio and it gave an asset allocation with roughly 30% equities (shares) and 70% fixed income (bonds)....
    Originally posted by Alexland
    How/where do you select these percentages?

    When I created the plan it just asked me 'what is your investment style', and I selected 'tentative'. Now, I can see tentative comprises of:
    * Cash - 0.75%
    * Corporate Bonds - 19.58%
    * Shares - 29.84%
    * Government Bonds - 47.01%
    * Bonds - 0.82%
    * Alternatives - 2%

    If I had selected 'cautious'. this would have been:

    * Cash - 0.75%
    * Corporate Bonds - 32.43%
    * Shares - 11.01%
    * Government Bonds - 52.46%
    * Bonds - 1.35%
    * Alternatives - 2%

    Edit: Ok. your post did say 'it gave'. so, they are already preset. You cannot tweak them. I realize this now.
    Last edited by OceanSound; 30-07-2019 at 6:19 PM.
    • OceanSound
    • By OceanSound 30th Jul 19, 5:40 PM
    • 761 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    OceanSound
    • #9
    • 30th Jul 19, 5:40 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Jul 19, 5:40 PM
    ... One of the Wealthify portfolios was down nearly 8% over a 1 year period in 2018, for example (according to that comparison page; I didn't check myself)...
    Originally posted by sendu
    Which portfolio/plan?...do you have a link to the comparison page please.

    ....It's unfortunate that that comparison webpage didn't cover longer time periods, because it's only really then that you see how abysmal these robo-advisor portfolios are.
    I seem to have a graph covering the period 12 February 2016 – 11 February 2017:
    https://www.wealthify.com/blog/wealthify-s-12-month-results

    Maybe together with your 2018 one year period, we can get some idea how plans performed over two years (albeit not a continuous two year period)?
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 30th Jul 19, 8:32 PM
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    Alexland
    It's not worth the effort to piece together bits of short term Wealthify performance data.

    If you are only after the bonus then you are low risk so it is unlikely you lose more than the bonus.

    If you are serious about investing long term there are better options than robo investors. If you invest properly in funds the historic data is all presented nicely in standard ways to enable easy comparison.

    Alex
    • londoninvestor
    • By londoninvestor 30th Jul 19, 9:28 PM
    • 1,335 Posts
    • 1,178 Thanks
    londoninvestor
    J P Morgan offer 3% on a fixed 1 year bond . Are they fully FSCS protected? . Are they trustworthy? What do you know about them?
    Originally posted by james michael
    JPM don't offer retail deposit products in the UK* - this will be a scammer pretending to be JP Morgan, and you should report it to the FCA:
    https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/report-scam-unauthorised-firm

    To be clear, JPM do offer funds and investment trusts in the UK, and these are not scams!

    * They might in the future. but they don't now:
    https://www.bankingtech.com/2019/06/jp-morgans-secretive-uk-digital-bank-plans-revealed/
    • OceanSound
    • By OceanSound 31st Jul 19, 7:26 AM
    • 761 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    OceanSound
    .....If you are only after the bonus then you are low risk so it is unlikely you lose more than the bonus...
    Originally posted by Alexland
    Which investment style did you pick when you had a little dabble with wealthify?:
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=75999683&highlight=wealthify+retu rns#11

    I'm now thinking of switching to 'cautious', since my goal is to safeguard both the incentive and investment. I've not yet made the initial payment, so am free to give it up. (I remember reading in one of their emails that if the plan is not funded within 3 months, it will automatically close)

    BTW, contacted support last night and they said changing risk level down only takes a message/phone call. Whereas, when changing risk level up, we have to go through the suitability questionnaire again.

    I'm wondering, because 'cautious' has much more of a stake in bonds, would a interest rate hike (can't imagine it to be more than 0.5% hike within 1 year) affect returns drastically?
    Last edited by OceanSound; 31-07-2019 at 7:33 AM.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 31st Jul 19, 10:29 AM
    • 5,778 Posts
    • 5,039 Thanks
    Alexland
    When I do S&S intro offers I usually go with the middle risk factor as if the money hadn't been invested with the robo it would have otherwise been invested for the long term at higher risk in one of my main accounts.

    If interest rates go up then the interest payments from the existing investment bonds you hold become less attractive so your bonds are worth less on the second hand market. They are supported by their eventual redemption value. Short dated bonds are less volatile as most their second hand value is much closer to the final redemption value

    Alex
    • sendu
    • By sendu 31st Jul 19, 11:01 AM
    • 112 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    sendu
    Which portfolio/plan?...do you have a link to the comparison page please.
    Originally posted by OceanSound
    The comparison page I was referring to was linked and discussed above:
    https://www.boringmoney.co.uk/learn/learning-paths/meet-the-robos/

    I seem to have a graph covering the period 12 February 2016 11 February 2017:
    https://www.wealthify.com/blog/wealthify-s-12-month-results

    Maybe together with your 2018 one year period, we can get some idea how plans performed over two years (albeit not a continuous two year period)?
    I also already linked their lifetime performance results (3 years). Here it is again: https://www.wealthify.com/blog/three-year-performance-results

    If you like the short term stability offered by a low percentage of equity, you can still invest in a global index tracker at a low %, and keep the rest as cash in a high interest savings account (since these are beating safe bonds right now), or invest in an ETF of short duration UK Gilts.

    Just 2 things to buy and rebalance each year. Would take a few minutes.
    • OceanSound
    • By OceanSound 31st Jul 19, 3:39 PM
    • 761 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    OceanSound
    When I do S&S intro offers I usually go with the middle risk factor as if the money hadn't been invested with the robo it would have otherwise been invested for the long term at higher risk in one of my main accounts.
    ....
    Originally posted by Alexland
    Re. your post in other thread:

    ...I noticed a few months later and could have contacted them to resolve but couldn't be bothered so just closed the account withdrawing 50.
    How come you withdrew exactly 50 (25 investment + 25 Bonus). i.e. how come there was no loss or profit after a few months?
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 31st Jul 19, 3:55 PM
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    Alexland
    There was a tiny profit but I didn't think it was worth mentioning. Similarly our youngest son just made an 83p profit on his 30 Onefamily Junior ISA which we only opened for the 80 Topcashback which has now paid so the account is transferring to Vanguard.
    • OceanSound
    • By OceanSound 5th Aug 19, 1:07 PM
    • 761 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    OceanSound
    Has anyone experienced delays with deposits being credited to your wealthify account?

    I can somewhat understand that it can take 3-5 working days for a bank deposit (transfer) to reach them. However, happen to see that some users have said wealthify guarantees payment processing within 10 working days.

    Not sure if this is in addition to the 3-5 working days or what. Anyway, 10 working days seems rather long, particularly if you have a large investment (as that money is kinda in limbo).

    update: the 10 working days must be the total, because i've just seen on the wealthify FAQ that they will invest your money in 2 working days (wd's) and that it may take a couple of extra days for it to appear on the dashboard. So, up to 7 wd's for money to be invested? (5 days max for money to reach wealthify then 2 wd's for it to be invested)
    Last edited by OceanSound; 05-08-2019 at 1:19 PM.
    • OceanSound
    • By OceanSound 5th Aug 19, 1:31 PM
    • 761 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    OceanSound
    ....
    I can somewhat understand that it can take 3-5 working days for a bank deposit (transfer) to reach them...
    Originally posted by OceanSound
    Just remembered only BACS payments take up to 3 working days these days.
    • VXman
    • By VXman 12th Nov 19, 1:11 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    VXman
    I have been with wealthify since sept 2018 Initially invested 5000 and then Added 1000 a couple of months later. Added 10k last August.

    I've invested at the 'confident' level. Growth since Sept 18 has been 7 %. And 9% in the last 12 months.

    I have 100k sitting in low interest instant access accounts. Tempted to put more into wealthify. Knowing me it would just plunge the day after I put it in though!
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