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    • TOBRUK
    • By TOBRUK 13th Jan 10, 3:28 PM
    • 2,293 Posts
    • 2,757 Thanks
    TOBRUK
    Yes i have disabilities (or at least i have conditions talked about on here as disabilities) but i self manage and still work normally.
    Originally posted by C_Mababejive
    I consider that you are very lucky that your disability or condition is such that you are able and well enough to ...
    self manage and still work normally
    I for one cannot and I consider myself very lucky if I am able to get dressed occasionally or a day I may be able to leave the house. I did work for many years and had a 'normal' life until suddenly my world fell apart and everything stopped. I was very independent but I now have to ask for help!
    • summerof0763
    • By summerof0763 13th Jan 10, 3:56 PM
    • 812 Posts
    • 825 Thanks
    summerof0763
    I am 68 and get DLA does this mean I qualify for cold weather payments? Its a simple yes or no,as reading the other posts are a bit confusing.
    Originally posted by moonsilk2
    at 68 i presume you get the winter fuel allowance.dla does not qualify on its own for cold weather payments,you have to be in receipt of other qualifying benefits which not all disabled people get
  • mellc
    [QUOTE=fedupconsumer;28792685]

    WFP should be means tested and there is nothing to say it would cost more to do so, simply looking at the assesment of income when applying for other benefits has effectively done the work for them. Simple solutions but the powers that be dont want to address the obvious disparity.

    At last some sense, my ex landlord was over 60 and he drives around in a BMW sports car and has regular exotic holidays, he gets the same winter fuel payments as the little old lady down the road who is living hand to mouth how is that fair?

    Yes i agree some disabled people can work and good for them, i'll swap paying their gas bill with my disabilities any day
    • summerof0763
    • By summerof0763 13th Jan 10, 4:04 PM
    • 812 Posts
    • 825 Thanks
    summerof0763
    Yes i have disabilities (or at least i have conditions talked about on here as disabilities) but i self manage and still work normally.
    Originally posted by C_Mababejive
    i worked "normaly" for years and would dearly love to work "normally" again but i can barely get up some days for "chronic pain" never mind "conditions"
    • _shel
    • By _shel 13th Jan 10, 5:53 PM
    • 2,477 Posts
    • 4,588 Thanks
    _shel
    We're told that we have to use our DLA - why do we have to, yet once we reach 60 (or is it 65?) we don't have to do this? Or do we suddenly have more costs when we reach that age?
    Originally posted by sh1305

    Why should we have to do this.....Because thats why we get awarded DLA.

    IS, ESA, JSA or shock horror wages are there to pay for 'normal' essential living costs. DLA is awarded to pay for extra costs related to disability such as, amongst other things, transport, medical equipment, special foods and additional heating.

    Benefits are not designed to give a little extra at the end of each week/month for luxuries, savings etc. No they dont cover everything for everyone but then they are not designed to do so.

    I'd actually argue that the CWP made to pensioners needs to means / need tested. No some of those retired Europe who dont need it shouldnt get it and those on the breadline should get more.
    • Indie Kid
    • By Indie Kid 13th Jan 10, 6:10 PM
    • 21,629 Posts
    • 29,326 Thanks
    Indie Kid
    Why should we have to do this.....Because thats why we get awarded DLA.
    Originally posted by _shel
    But some pensioners get DLA or AA. So, why don't they have to pay it out of theirs?

    18.65 per week doesn't go far. Especially when that involves things such as transport costs (can't drive and can't go out by myself) or things such as special food, nappy sacks, extra washing and possibly soon, nappies.

    I'll still need those things at 65 - so why does the government then decide to help me?
  • Trialia
    God, this whole thread is making me furious just reading it.

    My DLA pays for me to have ready meals delivered because I can't go out and shop, can't cook for myself, pays for me to get a little help ironing and cleaning and to have a computer because I have a severe phobia of telephone calls and get very depressed when I am cut off from friends and family without internet access. I don't get the severe disability premium because the DWP decided, despite the Pension Service advisor who helped me fill out my latest DLA form and my doctor's comments, that I don't need to be on middle-rate care. I can't drive, and often cannot take public transport because of anxiety, bad Aspie days and haptephobia, so have to have taxis about half the time. I also have to pay for special clothing and alternative health treatments out of my DLA as I have severe fibromyalgia, hypermobility, Raynaud's and temperature/air-pressure-affected migraines (along with rapid-cycling bipolar disorder) and am allergic to multiple fabrics including wool and acrylic.

    All of the former are negatively affected by the winter and its weather - if I get too cold I become too stiff and am in too much pain to move at all - so I need extra heating. Does the DLA meet that cost? Hell, no. Not by a long chalk.

    Given all I already have to pay for extras out of what little DLA I get, I can't afford extra heating on top, which means I have to go without other things to meet the bills I can't go without paying - for example, it means I have to reduce what I eat to the point where it will keep me from becoming hypoglycaemic and not much more. And I do not have the energy to appeal against my low-care ruling to get the severe disability premium, even though it takes me all my time to get anything done because of my state of health and there are many things I simply can't do at all. So I don't get winter fuel payments, even though the cold makes my conditions considerably - and noticeably - worse, because I am under 60.

    Now tell me: how is that a fair way to make someone live?

    Edit: Used the wrong abbreviation - I do get CWP, but not winter fuel payments.
    Last edited by Trialia; 14-01-2010 at 1:20 AM.
    Homosexual, Unitarian, young, British, female, disabled. Do you need more?
  • mellc
    God, this whole thread is making me furious just reading it.

    My DLA pays for me to have ready meals delivered because I can't go out and shop, can't cook for myself, pays for me to get a little help ironing and cleaning and to have a computer because I have a severe phobia of telephone calls and get very depressed when I am cut off from friends and family without internet access. I don't get the severe disability premium because the DWP decided, despite the Pension Service advisor who helped me fill out my latest DLA form and my doctor's comments, that I don't need to be on middle-rate care. I can't drive, and often cannot take public transport because of anxiety, bad Aspie days and haptephobia, so have to have taxis about half the time. I also have to pay for special clothing and alternative health treatments out of my DLA as I have severe fibromyalgia, hypermobility, Raynaud's and temperature/air-pressure-affected migraines (along with rapid-cycling bipolar disorder) and am allergic to multiple fabrics including wool and acrylic.

    All of the former are negatively affected by the winter and its weather - if I get too cold I become too stiff and am in too much pain to move at all - so I need extra heating. Does the DLA meet that cost? Hell, no. Not by a long chalk.

    Given all I already have to pay for extras out of what little DLA I get, I can't afford extra heating on top, which means I have to go without other things to meet the bills I can't go without paying - for example, it means I have to reduce what I eat to the point where it will keep me from becoming hypoglycaemic and not much more. And I do not have the energy to appeal against my low-care ruling to get the severe disability premium, even though it takes me all my time to get anything done because of my state of health and there are many things I simply can't do at all. So I don't get CWP, even though the cold makes my conditions considerably - and noticeably - worse, because I am under 60.

    Now tell me: how is that a fair way to make someone live?
    Originally posted by Trialia
    Spot on! its NOT fair, why should pensioners that go to europe for the winter get the CWP and people who need the extra be left struggling, will someone PLEASE tell me why the CWP is not means tested
    • Indie Kid
    • By Indie Kid 13th Jan 10, 7:04 PM
    • 21,629 Posts
    • 29,326 Thanks
    Indie Kid
    Spot on! its NOT fair, why should pensioners that go to europe for the winter get the CWP and people who need the extra be left struggling, will someone PLEASE tell me why the CWP is not means tested
    Originally posted by mellc
    CWP is means tested. It's the winter fuel payments that aren't means tested.
  • joolzred
    Although when I'm at home for days after having cluster seizures I use extra heating in winter I really cant sign this.

    Both DH and I get DLA but why on earth should we be paid a cold weather payment? We get DLA to pay for extra disability needs (including heating when needed) and we both work and get tax credits due to disability to pay for 'life'.

    It realy would not be equal or fair to pay us this.

    It really wasn't thought through before posting here or on the Number10 site was it?
    Originally posted by _shel
    I absolutely agree with you. I am disabled due to having several complex spinal surgeries and the kind of extra costs described is what I use my DLA for - that's why DLA is paid! If one's DLA income is below the Income Support threshold then it's topped up by IS and one gets a cold weather payment.
    • Indie Kid
    • By Indie Kid 13th Jan 10, 7:06 PM
    • 21,629 Posts
    • 29,326 Thanks
    Indie Kid
    I absolutely agree with you. I am disabled due to having several complex spinal surgeries and the kind of extra costs described is what I use my DLA for - that's why DLA is paid! If one's DLA income is below the Income Support threshold then it's topped up by IS and one gets a cold weather payment.
    Originally posted by joolzred
    What you've said is incorrect:
    DLA isn't means tested and you can claim it and work at the same.
    IS is means tested and only certain people can claim it.
  • joolzred
    What you've said is incorrect:
    DLA isn't means tested and you can claim it and work at the same.
    IS is means tested and only certain people can claim it.
    Originally posted by sh1305
    You're right! I meant to type SDA (now defunct to new applicants)/IC/ESA
  • moonsilk2
    Not a simple yes or no I'm afraid! Do you get pension credit?
    Originally posted by DX2
    No I dont get pension credit, I was just inquiring.
  • joolzred
    CWP (cold weather payment) are a means-tested weekly payment made when temperatures fall below 0c for 7 days. WFP (Winter Fuel Payment) is the 250 lump sum payout made to all people over 60 regardless of income and this is what the OP refers to.

    (just to clear up any confusion re. the two)
  • mellc
    CWP is means tested. It's the winter fuel payments that aren't means tested.
    Originally posted by sh1305
    Sorry thats what i meant, so why isn't WFP means tested? in fact the CWP which is means tested would involve 10 weeks of zero conditions before we would get the same amount, or in the case of a couple 16 weeks, and while i'm asking questions why does a couple get more than a single person, do they not both feel the same heat?
  • krisskross
    WFP isn't means tested for 2 reasons.

    1st is because it would be more expensive if means tested and 2nd because the basic pension is so poor and this is a way of improving it.

    Plus the government like to point out that a lot of help is given with heating costs for pensioners. Many thousands of old people die of hypothermia each winter. There were 2 just last week dying in a freezing house. Most pensioners aren't as benefit aware as you computer savvy folks who have access to sites like this. Please don't begrudge them 5 a week.
    • Indie Kid
    • By Indie Kid 13th Jan 10, 8:47 PM
    • 21,629 Posts
    • 29,326 Thanks
    Indie Kid
    WFP isn't means tested for 2 reasons.

    1st is because it would be more expensive if means tested and 2nd because the basic pension is so poor and this is a way of improving it.
    Originally posted by krisskross
    Isn't that what pension credit is for?
  • krisskross
    Isn't that what pension credit is for?
    Originally posted by sh1305

    Not all pensioners can claim pension credit. Take up of benefits is poor in the older age group........many still see it as charity. Even those entitled to pension credit or savings credit may not be claiming it but because WFP is non means tested and universal then most pensioners are happy with this.

    Child benefit is non means tested and universal to all parents. Why aren't you all saying you should get this as well? Whether you meet the criteria or not.

    Everyone can't have everything. Benefits for disabled people have increased far more than those for pensioners. Is there no sense of 'thank goodness I live in a country that helps those unable to help themselves'?
  • mellc
    WFP isn't means tested for 2 reasons.

    1st is because it would be more expensive if means tested and 2nd because the basic pension is so poor and this is a way of improving it.

    Plus the government like to point out that a lot of help is given with heating costs for pensioners. Many thousands of old people die of hypothermia each winter. There were 2 just last week dying in a freezing house. Most pensioners aren't as benefit aware as you computer savvy folks who have access to sites like this. Please don't begrudge them 5 a week.
    Originally posted by krisskross
    i wouldn't be grudge anybody that needs 5.00 a week, my bone of contention is the 100's of pensioners that are extremly wealthy. Our DLA is poorer than a state pension! i don't see how it would cost more than it would save to make this payment means tested. And obviously if people are still dying in freezing houses this WFP isn't working anyway!
  • krisskross
    i wouldn't be grudge anybody that needs 5.00 a week, my bone of contention is the 100's of pensioners that are extremly wealthy. Our DLA is poorer than a state pension! i don't see how it would cost more than it would save to make this payment means tested. And obviously if people are still dying in freezing houses this WFP isn't working anyway!
    Originally posted by mellc
    But you don't only get DLA do you? I would expect you get other benefits as well. My sole state funded income is 230 a month pension plus of course 2.50 a week from the WFP.

    Of course it is more expensive to award payments by means testing, and there would be the elderly who do not apply.

    I am sure you would class us as not being in actual need of the WFP, but that is because we have worked for many decades and saved. i am also sure there will be many who receive DLA who do not financially need it but have it anyway. Perhaps DLA should be means tested also?
    Last edited by krisskross; 13-01-2010 at 10:14 PM.
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