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  • FIRST POST
    • hubb
    • By hubb 18th Oct 19, 11:15 AM
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    hubb
    Royal mail item lost my item sent
    • #1
    • 18th Oct 19, 11:15 AM
    Royal mail item lost my item sent 18th Oct 19 at 11:15 AM
    A buyer has contacted me saying an item I sent on the 4th has still not arrived. I have a certificate of postage and the item sold for 6.99 and I paid 3 postage. As this has never happened before will the royal mail refund the buyer as its not my fault ? Ebay have also charged me a fee on this sale which I need back if it doesn't turn up.

    Should I ask the buyer to give it longer ?
    Last edited by hubb; 18-10-2019 at 11:20 AM.
Page 2
    • hubb
    • By hubb 21st Oct 19, 12:39 AM
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    hubb
    Well it has to be in my favour as the tracked parcel shows delivered for the correct postcode. Should I just resolve the open dispute and refund the buyer as they seem to be getting no answer from the neighbour who possibly may have had it delivered ?
    • ballisticbrian
    • By ballisticbrian 21st Oct 19, 7:38 AM
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    ballisticbrian
    sorry wrong post
    Last edited by ballisticbrian; 21-10-2019 at 7:41 AM. Reason: optional
    Warning: any unnecessary disclaimers appearing under my posts do not bear any connection with reality, either intended, accidental or otherwise. Your statutory rights are not affected.
    • hubb
    • By hubb 28th Oct 19, 8:33 AM
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    hubb
    The only proof you have is that you sent it to the wrong address, any Paypal / Ebay case is lost. Luckily this not a very expensive lesson.
    Originally posted by molerat
    But the website tracking number shows it was delivered so that is the proof. Buyer still says it hasn't turned up and no response from Royal Mail via their lost item procedure. I have proof that the tracking number of the parcel was delivered but the buyer says not. Also the buyer seems a bit unconventional as she leaves it for a week and then gets back to me, being rather laid back about it all. I do wonder if the buyer got the parcel from the address the postman possibly delivered by mistake and is still acting as if it was never found.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 28th Oct 19, 8:51 AM
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    soolin
    But the website tracking number shows it was delivered so that is the proof. Buyer still says it hasn't turned up and no response from Royal Mail via their lost item procedure. I have proof that the tracking number of the parcel was delivered but the buyer says not. Also the buyer seems a bit unconventional as she leaves it for a week and then gets back to me, being rather laid back about it all. I do wonder if the buyer got the parcel from the address the postman possibly delivered by mistake and is still acting as if it was never found.
    Originally posted by hubb
    If buyer requests that ebay confirms the actual address shown on the post code- and this does not match then buyer will win. I have actually had a buyer request that of ebay- they requested that ebay check the actual address on proof of postage - at that time I was using the PO so uploaded a scan of my till receipt clearly showing house number- and at that time buyer suddenly realised they had mistakenly put the wrong house number into paypal (they said they have moved and mistakenly put their old house number and new postcode) - and I won the case.

    This was a while ago but I assume that buyers can still request this as otherwise sellers could send anywhere within the correct delivery office area and still win a case- which would be nonsense.As a buyer I don't want to ever lose a case merely because seller or shop can show that something was delivered in my local area- I want proof it was delivered to my stated address.
    Last edited by soolin; 28-10-2019 at 8:54 AM.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • By the_lunatic_is_in_my_head 28th Oct 19, 10:38 AM
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    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    otherwise sellers could send anywhere within the correct delivery office area and still win a case- which would be nonsense.As a buyer I don't want to ever lose a case merely because seller or shop can show that something was delivered in my local area- I want proof it was delivered to my stated address.
    Originally posted by soolin
    The odds of a seller uploading a tracking number before the ETA that delivers to the right area at the right time is pretty slim.

    eBay state:

    Information required to prove a successful on-time delivery is all of the following:

    Tracking number uploaded to the site by the seller before the estimated delivery date;
    A delivery status of "delivered" (or equivalent in the country to which the item was delivered);
    The date of delivery;
    The recipient's address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent) that matches the one found on the 'Order details' page; and
    Signature confirmation, if an item has a total cost of 750 or more.


    The OP has placed a burden upon themselves by mentioning the COP error as they presumably correctly addressed the parcel.

    The majority of non receipt claims are false and uploading the parcel ref when you post the order cuts a lot of this out.

    OP your choice is to refund them or to upload the tracking to the case and see what eBay do.

    The other option is do nothing and the buyer will ask eBay to step in which is the same as option 2 above really, although if you don't add the tracking you'll lose for certain.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 28th Oct 19, 11:14 AM
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    soolin
    your quote states

    Information required to prove a successful on-time delivery is all of the following:
    which is for the late defect and not for the buyer guarantee.

    However, if the same applies to the guarantee then that's a real worry as it means no buyer can be guaranteed their stuff as long as the delivery company leave it with someone within the right delivery area. I certainly would not be happy to be told that I had no cover as someone somewhere within my delivery area (and I live in London so the area is highly populated) has my parcel.

    Also for anyone living in places of known scammers, and Bournemouth springs to mind due to the temporary student address issue that used to be rife, could easily be scammed.

    If my item didn't arrive I would be onto ebay insisting they showed delivery to my address as given on ebay/paypal and not just within a large metropolitan delivery area.

    Also if buyer opened a paypal INR then they would win as the address would need to match as they don't mention delivery area at all.
    Last edited by soolin; 28-10-2019 at 11:17 AM.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • soolin
    • By soolin 28th Oct 19, 11:19 AM
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    soolin
    As per the ebay buyer guarantee:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee?id=4210

    If asked to step in and help, we review the information provided by the buyer and seller for evidence of successful on-time delivery to the buyer's address (as displayed on the 'Order details' page), or proof of collection by the buyer.


    so not covered with just showing delivery to the general area.

    I assume buyers, like mine , though would have to ask ebay to delve further as most basic tracking just shows an area.

    EDIT: Interestingly, note the bit about the proof of collection- does that mean collection from a delivery office or could it perhaps mean ebay are addressing the paypal on collection scam?
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • hareng
    • By hareng 28th Oct 19, 11:23 AM
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    hareng
    As said above send in the tracking info your covered for a win.
    Have personally seen posty pull up from 150 yards away, make no attempt to knock door and go next door. Yet parcel says delivered and signed for! Has happened a few times from one posty, bottom line RM will side with their staff you have to prove otherwise.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 28th Oct 19, 11:55 AM
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    soolin
    As said above send in the tracking info your covered for a win.
    Have personally seen posty pull up from 150 yards away, make no attempt to knock door and go next door. Yet parcel says delivered and signed for! Has happened a few times from one posty, bottom line RM will side with their staff you have to prove otherwise.
    Originally posted by hareng
    The situation here though is that if buyer requests ebay to check POP details then it will show the wrong address, and seller loses seller protection. It's a slim chance as few buyers even know they can do it, but it is still a chance.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • By the_lunatic_is_in_my_head 28th Oct 19, 1:22 PM
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    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    your quote states

    which is for the late defect and not for the buyer guarantee.
    Originally posted by soolin
    That's incorrect, my quote was directly from the Money Back Guarantee page, it only needs to show the area which is why the word or is used.

    If eBay required more than the area then tracking from Royal Mail wouldn't cover any seller without them manually uploading proof of dispatch.

    That's not to suggest eBay might not ask the seller for more information (or more likely just cover the refund for a regular buyer on a relatively low value item) if the buyer appealed.



    If asked to step in and help, we review the information provided by the buyer and seller for evidence of successful on-time delivery to the buyer's address (as displayed on the 'Order details' page), or proof of collection by the buyer.
    Originally posted by soolin
    What I quoted is what eBay are looking for regarding successful delivery.

    Regarding London the Royal Mail Track and Trace shows the delivery office so for example if you live in Tooting and it shows as delivered from the Wood Green office eBay wouldn't side with the seller.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 28th Oct 19, 1:47 PM
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    soolin
    That's incorrect, my quote was directly from the Money Back Guarantee page, it only needs to show the area which is why the word or is used.

    If eBay required more than the area then tracking from Royal Mail wouldn't cover any seller without them manually uploading proof of dispatch.

    That's not to suggest eBay might not ask the seller for more information (or more likely just cover the refund for a regular buyer on a relatively low value item) if the buyer appealed.




    What I quoted is what eBay are looking for regarding successful delivery.

    Regarding London the Royal Mail Track and Trace shows the delivery office so for example if you live in Tooting and it shows as delivered from the Wood Green office eBay wouldn't side with the seller.
    Originally posted by the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    Then as usual ebay have different policies in different places. My quote was also from the buyer guarantee and states the address is needed as per the order details on ebay:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee?id=4210

    If an area is all thats needed then there is a very obvious scam possible- I hesitated to post it but it seems so obvious that I'm sure it won't give anyone ideas. Sell an expensive item up to 750 and work out which delivery area it is in (easily done) then send it to a drop box or locker within that area- go and collect it (or even leave an empty box there) and your tracking shows item was successfully delivered from the right delivery office and buyer can't claw their money back.
    Last edited by soolin; 28-10-2019 at 1:50 PM.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • By the_lunatic_is_in_my_head 28th Oct 19, 1:49 PM
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    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    Then as usual ebay have different policies in different places. My quote was also from the buyer guarantee and states the address is needed as per the order details on ebay:

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee?id=4210
    Originally posted by soolin
    It's the same policy.

    eBay require as you quoted and what I quoted is their criteria for measuring it.

    Two bits quoted together might be a bit clearer:

    If asked to step in and help, we review the information provided by the buyer and seller for evidence of successful on-time delivery to the buyer's address (as displayed on the 'Order details' page), or proof of collection by the buyer.

    Information required to prove a successful on-time delivery is all of the following:

    Tracking number uploaded to the site by the seller before the estimated delivery date;
    A delivery status of "delivered" (or equivalent in the country to which the item was delivered);
    The date of delivery;
    The recipient's address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent) that matches the one found on the 'Order details' page; and
    Signature confirmation, if an item has a total cost of 750 or more
    • hubb
    • By hubb 4th Nov 19, 7:25 PM
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    hubb
    Well after the investigation with the Royal Mail (which took forever, dealing with 3 people) they can confirm it was delivered to the correct address so I am in the clear. Buyer still states she never received the item so its between her and the royal mail to make a claim surely ?
    • hubb
    • By hubb 6th Nov 19, 5:34 PM
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    hubb
    Anyone please ?
    • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • By the_lunatic_is_in_my_head 6th Nov 19, 7:23 PM
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    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    Anyone please ?
    Originally posted by hubb
    As above your choice is to refund them or to upload the tracking to the case and see what the buyer and eBay do.

    The other option is do nothing and the buyer will eventually likely ask eBay to step in which is the same as option 2 above really, although if you don't add the tracking you'll lose for certain.

    The buyer may also give up and go away.
    • hubb
    • By hubb 6th Nov 19, 10:40 PM
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    hubb
    As above your choice is to refund them or to upload the tracking to the case and see what the buyer and eBay do.

    The other option is do nothing and the buyer will eventually likely ask eBay to step in which is the same as option 2 above really, although if you don't add the tracking you'll lose for certain.

    The buyer may also give up and go away.
    Originally posted by the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    The buyer closed the case a couple of weeks ago and left me good feedback despite bringing it up again that the parcel never turned up. Very strange one.
    • the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    • By the_lunatic_is_in_my_head 7th Nov 19, 8:11 AM
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    the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    The buyer closed the case a couple of weeks ago and left me good feedback despite bringing it up again that the parcel never turned up. Very strange one.
    Originally posted by hubb
    Happy days, block and ignore then.
    • hubb
    • By hubb 7th Nov 19, 2:45 PM
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    hubb
    Happy days, block and ignore then.
    Originally posted by the_lunatic_is_in_my_head
    Is that ethical ?
    • lindens
    • By lindens 7th Nov 19, 3:31 PM
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    lindens
    whats ethics got to do with it? i wouldnt want that person buying from me again, they probably lied about not receiving a parcel
    You're not your * could have not of * Debt not dept *
    • hubb
    • By hubb 7th Nov 19, 6:33 PM
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    hubb
    whats ethics got to do with it? i wouldnt want that person buying from me again, they probably lied about not receiving a parcel
    Originally posted by lindens
    But they have been a member since 2002 with a very high feedback rating. why would they want to jeopardize that by lying about a cheap second hand item ?
    Last edited by hubb; 07-11-2019 at 7:54 PM.
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