Skimlinks trial on MSE forums

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  • meher
    meher Posts: 15,910 Forumite
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    The amazon part that I posted wasn't about the link, just the word. Some sites work that way but not here as it has been clarified. So it doesn't edit post, apparently it simply scans and latches on to certain links invisibly to track use of those sites - any item or services we buy, this site where we found the offer in the first place, benefits. Actually nothing has changed re posts, just the affiliation system has been enhanced or so I understand.
  • Former_MSE_Dan
    Former_MSE_Dan Posts: 1,593 Forumite
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    robt wrote: »
    Because some people will think it is a little bit underhand. Despite what Dan is saying, posts WILL be edited (automatically, and only the link, on-the-fly) to change the link to the product (eg on Amazon) to an affiliate link. The fact that Dan has told such a blatant lie is disgraceful.

    I find this a bit offensive - we have been very clear how this works, and you are now misrepresenting it, hopefully through misunderstanding. Posts will NOT be edited, even automatically.

    When a user clicks a link posted by another user, if skimlinks has a relationship with that retailer, the link will go via a redirect (but land on the same page). You can see this process happen if you watch the text line at the very bottom of a browser like Firefox. No edits happen to users posts.

    We try our best to work with our users, and communicate changes like this, and to be branded 'liars' and 'disgraceful' is pretty disheartening.
    Former MSE team member
  • robt_2
    robt_2 Posts: 3,401 Forumite
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    edited 6 August 2010 at 12:28AM
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    MSE_Dan wrote: »
    I find this a bit offensive - we have been very clear how this works, and you are now misrepresenting it, hopefully through misunderstanding. Posts will NOT be edited, even automatically.

    When a user clicks a link posted by another user, if skimlinks has a relationship with that retailer, the link will go via a redirect (but land on the same page). You can see this process happen if you watch the text line at the very bottom of a browser like Firefox. No edits happen to users posts.

    So it does exactly what I said, and what you yourself are disputing then. It changes the link to an affiliate link on the fly (via javascript - I know how it works) - that is editing of the user content. Whether the actual post is edited or not is neither here nor there, the link has been changed - which you have just admitted (and told us how to spot), but claimed that no content was changed earlier in the thread.
    We try our best to work with our users, and communicate changes like this, and to be branded 'liars' and 'disgraceful' is pretty disheartening.
    Apologies - but disheartening as it might be, it is also sadly the truth as you have just shown. Maybe your first post was a bit ambiguous for people who understand how the system works and possibly misleading for those who don't. Example:
    Will anything change in the posts?

    The posts will remain as they are originally written; we will not be altering the content at all. This means we cannot control the amount of links that appear, or whether they are the links Skimlinks has an association with.

    If Skimlinks doesn’t have any commercial relationship with the retailer mentioned in a post, the link is left unchanged.
    Totally contradictory, and implies (correctly) that the links ARE changed.

    I don't actually have a problem with the system, I just feel you could have been a bit more honest in the first post, that is all :)

    On a lighter note, has it been switched on, and are there any threads where you can see it in action yet?
  • thelawnet
    thelawnet Posts: 2,577 Forumite
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    edited 6 August 2010 at 1:52AM
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    I think it is very underhand because the link appears to be to www.argos.co.uk or whatever, but when you click on it it is stealth altered, and there's nothing you can do about it.

    I can choose not to click on an affiliate link if I know what it is, but there's no warning with this.

    Also the redirectingat.com domain may be blocked by filtering software.

    Some discussion of this software here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/technical-issues/998250-skimlinks.html

    I've just switched to Firefox, installed 'Adblock Plus', and blocked '/skimlinks*', which seems to do the trick.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
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    Hi

    I have a small concern about this scheme.

    I really don't have anything against this idea in principle.

    But consider this scenario -
    1. I see someone post a link to a really good deal on Moneysavingexpert like for example a great O2 contract deal
    2. I know Quidco will give me cashback on that deal (Can be quite a lot on a mobile contract) so I login to Quidco and click their O2 link so as to get the cookies in place to reward me.
    3. Knowing that the cookies are all in place I come back to Moneysavingexpert and click through the O2 link here to get direct to the deal

    I've done that in the past with HotdealsUK and it has all tracked fine - Even though I've left O2 and come back through the Hotdeals link, it recognizes I'm back and I get the cashback

    But if I do that now here your skimlinks thingy will try to use your referral link

    Since I click your link last, won't it take presidence and give you the referral instead of Quidco?

    It's not a concern if everyone knows about this scheme, but I can imagine people who don't scratching their head as to why they're not getting cashback anymore
  • Jenna_Appleseed
    Jenna_Appleseed Posts: 4,873 Forumite
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    thelawnet wrote: »
    Some discussion of this software here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/technical-issues/998250-skimlinks.html

    a question inspired by that thread - what'll happen to the referrers board, will everybody's referral link automatically get changed to one that pays this site?:mad:
    "And suddenly I find myself listening to a man I've never known before,
    Telling me about the sea..."
  • oakhouse13
    oakhouse13 Posts: 767 Forumite
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    There is some advice on Squidu for affiliates posting their own links

    http://www.squidu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=304604

    I was watching the numbers on Skimlinks homepage to see the impact of co-opting by force in a way that can't be detected lots of personal posts between friends on a user generated forum into what advertises itself as one of the biggest commercial networks on the internet.

    Links processed by Skimlinks today 788,466
    Code instances served per second 369
    Monthly visits across Skimlinks network 923,374,080

    The figures have not really changed significantly since yesterday so perhaps there is a lapse in reporting or having watched these numbers they may actually be randomly generated by javascript.
  • oakhouse13
    oakhouse13 Posts: 767 Forumite
    edited 6 August 2010 at 7:46AM
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    Have read in more detail the thead on Squidu and there is a question from someone in the UK:

    "I'm more interested in FTC Rules. At present I am adding a disclaimer which covers Amazon, eBay, Zazzle and AllPosters. If SkimLinks starts adding other affiliates I am not sure how I should write a disclaimer as I don't understand the algorithm in detail. I think we need advice on how to write a disclaimer for SkimLinks or, at the very least, something specific added in to the standard Squidoo disclosure as any link could turn into a money-making link without us realising it. As a legally conservative person and, as a UK resident somebody who only studied US rules in part, the addition without legal advice on how this plays within FTC rules worries me."

    How will this affect people posting links for personal use which is what posts in the forum are? They will be turned into money-making links.

    I do think that as part of the trial MSE will have to address very carefully and give full, published legal advice on the impact on the people who post what are now invitations to purchase - a price often with a specific claim about a price advantage, product description and where to buy - and by law have to comply with a long list of requirements same as retailers have to comply and work night and day not to display incorrect pricing.

    There is an irony here though. A lot of posts are about incorrect pricing and exploiting them. Now the forum is an agent for e-commerce sites. Is Skimlinks actually a stealth master stroke by retailers to kill the forum?
  • Old_Wrinkly
    Old_Wrinkly Posts: 5,182 Forumite
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    MSE_Dan wrote: »
    When a user clicks a link posted by another user, if skimlinks has a relationship with that retailer, the link will go via a redirect (but land on the same page).

    Can you tell us which retailers skimlinks has a relationship with (so that we know which of our links will be interfered with)?
    Alternatively, can you provide a link to a page with that info - redirected or otherwise ...
  • Former_MSE_Dan
    Former_MSE_Dan Posts: 1,593 Forumite
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    Jenna_Appleseed wrote:
    a question inspired by that thread - what'll happen to the referrers board, will everybody's referral link automatically get changed to one that pays this site?

    This is a key question, and is addressed in the OP of the thread. The referrers board is unaffected by the Skimlinks software.
    Remotely wrote: »
    Hi

    I have a small concern about this scheme.

    I really don't have anything against this idea in principle.

    But consider this scenario -
    1. I see someone post a link to a really good deal on Moneysavingexpert like for example a great O2 contract deal
    2. I know Quidco will give me cashback on that deal (Can be quite a lot on a mobile contract) so I login to Quidco and click their O2 link so as to get the cookies in place to reward me.
    3. Knowing that the cookies are all in place I come back to Moneysavingexpert and click through the O2 link here to get direct to the deal

    I've done that in the past with HotdealsUK and it has all tracked fine - Even though I've left O2 and come back through the Hotdeals link, it recognizes I'm back and I get the cashback

    But if I do that now here your skimlinks thingy will try to use your referral link

    Since I click your link last, won't it take presidence and give you the referral instead of Quidco?

    It's not a concern if everyone knows about this scheme, but I can imagine people who don't scratching their head as to why they're not getting cashback anymore

    This is something we will be watching during the trial period, and will be considered before any decision is taken about whether to carry on using Skimlinks
    robt wrote: »
    So it does exactly what I said, and what you yourself are disputing then. It changes the link to an affiliate link on the fly (via javascript - I know how it works) - that is editing of the user content. Whether the actual post is edited or not is neither here nor there, the link has been changed - which you have just admitted (and told us how to spot), but claimed that no content was changed earlier in the thread.

    Apologies - but disheartening as it might be, it is also sadly the truth as you have just shown. Maybe your first post was a bit ambiguous for people who understand how the system works and possibly misleading for those who don't. Example:

    Totally contradictory, and implies (correctly) that the links ARE changed.

    I don't actually have a problem with the system, I just feel you could have been a bit more honest in the first post, that is all :)

    On a lighter note, has it been switched on, and are there any threads where you can see it in action yet?

    This is a question of mismatching semantics rather than anything else. Nothing actually written by people posting is altered - the post appears exactly as written, and the landing page remains the same.

    We do not consider adding in a redirect to the same page to be editing a post, but if you do then fair enough. But it is a confusion of terms, rather than the disgraceful blatant lie that you describe.

    It is a difficult concept to explain to less tech savvy folk (you obviiously know a lot about it already), and I think the OP is clear and factual

    Old_Wrinkly wrote: »
    Can you tell us which retailers skimlinks has a relationship with (so that we know which of our links will be interfered with)?
    Alternatively, can you provide a link to a page with that info - redirected or otherwise ...

    This is something we are looking how to do if we continue after the trial.
    Former MSE team member
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