Secondary Beneficiary Issue for Will

wildg · 23 February 2019 at 9:39AM

Hi

To keep things brief...

Mum has dementia

I'm her only family, so sole beneficiary

We'll be making her closest friends secondary beneficiaries in the event of my death

Appreciate doctor or solicitor signatory ideal due to dementia but dementia-related issues make this very difficult

Dementia UK have advised that someone's capacity to make a decision in a specific circumstance (i.e. signing their will) can be assessed by an individual who has known them for over 2 years

Mum's few close friends are the ideal people to assess capacity but they cannot be signatories to the will as they would be some of the secondary beneficiaries

Options outside of using these friends as witnesses to the will are extremely narrow

I was wondering whether an agreement for one secondary beneficiary to receive the estate and then use a deed of variation to apportion between the others would be legal or sensible? As this means that more of her friends are available to be witnesses to the will and concurrently ensure that they believe he has capacity to do it.

Suggestions gratefully received.

Thank you!

Keep_pedalling · 23 February 2019 at 10:01AM

To be honest it sounds like you mother does not have the capacity to make a will. There is absolutely nothing stoping you simply gifting these items / sums to her friends from your inheritance once she has died, or if the amounts are substancial and would give your estatean IHT issue then you could do a deed of variation.

Yorkshireman99 · 23 February 2019 at 10:20AM

wildg wrote: »

Hi

To keep things brief...
Mum has dementia

I'm her only family, so sole beneficiary

We'll be making her closest friends secondary beneficiaries in the event of my death

Appreciate doctor or solicitor signatory ideal due to dementia but dementia-related issues make this very difficult

Dementia UK have advised that someone's capacity to make a decision in a specific circumstance (i.e. signing their will) can be assessed by an individual who has known them for over 2 years

Mum's few close friends are the ideal people to assess capacity but they cannot be signatories to the will as they would be some of the secondary beneficiaries

Options outside of using these friends as witnesses to the will are extremely narrow

I was wondering whether an agreement for one secondary beneficiary to receive the estate and then use a deed of variation to apportion between the others would be legal or sensible? As this means that more of her friends are available to be witnesses to the will and concurrently ensure that they believe he has capacity to do it.

Suggestions gratefully received.

Thank you!

Whatever Dementia UK May say a professional assessment by a doctor or solicitor is essential. From what you say she is unlikely to have capacity. As sole beneficiary under irestacy or valid will thena DOV is the way forward.

SevenOfNine · 23 February 2019 at 10:50AM

You're referring to your possible demise before your mother it seems, which raises this quandary.

The difficulty with lining up a single secondary beneficiary to be sole inheritor on the understanding that they then process a DoV to share it with others, is what will be done if that beneficiary also dies before your mother?

Assuming they haven't, if the DoV arrangement is to be undertaken 'on trust/an understanding', I'd be very wary of that being seen through, however much friendship & fondness there is, it has a habit of flying out the window when money is involved!

If the DoV is to be mentioned in the will, are all those to be included in the possibility of a DoV to be named? If not, what if Fred (the sole secondary beneficiary now in charge of instigating a DoV) has fallen out with Ginger (someone who was supposed to gain from a DoV), & flatly refuses to include her? If any of them have already died what happens to their DoV'd share?

I think you need the advice of a good solicitor.

hb2 · 24 February 2019 at 12:08PM

If any beneficiary is in receipt of income-related benefits, they will not be able to do a DoV, or otherwise give away the inheritance, without risking this being seen as 'Deprivation of Capital' by DSS. This would mean that they would be treated as if they still have the money and (income related) state benefits reduced, or stopped, accordingly.

AnotherJoe · 25 February 2019 at 2:34PM

I'm not sure that what you want to do is possible / legal.

You say "we want" but that's not your mum is it?

If a challenge came in from other relatives that would inherit were you to die before your mum, seems to me they would have a good case.

How likely is this scenario? Do you have a condition that makes this likely or are you just trying to cover all bases? Does mum have a current will?

tacpot12 · 25 February 2019 at 4:09PM

You could ask your Mum's GP to assess her capacity in relation to writing a new will. If your Mum's dementia is not far advanced, then she may have capacity to make a simple will.

Marcon · 26 February 2019 at 12:06AM

You're making this unbelievably complicated and uncertain.

You say the options for witnesses are 'extremely narrow' - but presumably that means 'better than zero'? If you want a valid will, you really do need to look further at this option, especially if a GP or solicitor who has known her for at least 2 years might be an option.

getmore4less · 26 February 2019 at 6:53AM

In the UK there is no requirement for a witness to assess testamentary capacity they just need to witness the signing.

If there is doubt on capacity then have a read up on

Testamentary Capacity and the 'Golden Rule'.

Plenty of good discussion on capacity issues based on real cases

I think you need to think carefully about what is wrong with what you said in your OP.

We'll be making her closest friends secondary beneficiaries in the event of my death

wildg · 18 June 2019 at 3:35PM

Thank you to all who replied. This was a question asked on behalf of someone else who was monitoring responses online. Apologies for not responding and thanking you all sooner.

Secondary Beneficiary Issue for Will

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