Family Holiday - Cancellations, Delays, Missed connections, choosing not to fly.

2

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  • We have now received the second rejection from United having challenged the 'Inclement Weather' and highlighted the evidence we have to the contrary and the reasons given to us for delay at the time. We also marked this NBA - thanks.

    Their response was rather laughable, no attempts to address any of the points raised but concluding that they feel they have fully addressed our concerns. They have re-affirmed their stance in what looked like a very generic email.

    We have passed the details of our United experience onto the CAA.
  • EvaLewis
    EvaLewis Posts: 13
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    Hi all,

    Still awaiting any kind of response from KLM, we gave them 14 days in the original letter on the 4th September. I've also sent follow up emails asking for updates but only had automated confirmations of receipt come back. In this time we have claimed and been awarded compensation for my in-laws, who were also on the same cancelled outgoing flight, using the exact same template as our own claim.

    Our claim against KLM is obviously more complicated as it involves the return flight too but it seems like they are avoiding responding, particularly as my in-laws claim was paid out within a couple of weeks. Is there anything further I can do at this stage? - I see on the CAA website that we have to wait 8 weeks for the airline's response. Is it just a case of waiting it out until the 8 weeks are up and then going to the dispute resolution company?

    Our United flight claim is still with the CAA.
  • EvaLewis
    EvaLewis Posts: 13
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    edited 7 December 2019 at 10:56AM
    Hi all,

    After initially rejecting our return journey claim KLM eventually offered 250 Euros per person claiming they were only liable for the Manchester to Amsterdam to Glasgow section of the journey - despite the entire journey (Las Vegas to Glasgow) being booked on their website and the transatlantic flight being operated under a partnership agreement.

    Having then got the ADR involved, it had taken KLM over 8 weeks by this point, they have re-iterated the 250 Euros per person offer.

    I asked the ADR live chat to confirm I was right to refuse the offer and hold out for the 600 but they told me they wouldn't advise on whether to accept or refuse an offer. I have now rejected.

    We've had the confirmation that'll take up to 90 days for them to make their decision - seems a bit excessive, surely it's pretty clear cut? Has anyone had any experience of decision wait times with ADR?

    On a positive note, the outgoing KLM claim has been paid out in full, along with expenses for return.
    The United claim is with the CAA due to an 'inclement weather' response.

    My experience so far is that whole process requires a lot of patience - we're 98 days in, KLM took over 50 days to give us any response, the United claim has been with the CAA for over 60 and the ADR are saying they may be 90 more from today!!!
  • JPears
    JPears Posts: 5,084
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    edited 8 December 2019 at 11:25AM
    Welcome to the world of flight compensation.
    What should be a relatively simple procedure is usualy a long drawn out affair with airlines puting obstacles in your path at every oppurtunity.
    A strongly worded leter of complaint about each misdemeanour by each arirline should be sent.
    The CAA don't seem interested in actualy fulfilling their obligations as a regulator but the more complaints that are sent the better. I wonder if the CAA are answerable to the PAC?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
  • Yip, it's been quite the experience and quite the test of patience.

    - Nearly 8 weeks with nothing but automated replies from KLM (I noted they actually seemed to respond better when I started WhatsApp'ing them).
    - Their agent said the case had taken longer because she'd been off sick.
    - For the flight KLM cancelled (Glasgow to Amsterdam to LA) I had to prove that the replacement United flight was also late before they would agree to full compensation (luckily I had captured this detail from flight stats).
    - I was given a direct email address to provide this evidence to them. I was then later that day asked not to contact them via that email address for any other aspects of the case.
    - For the return flight we were initially only offered our expenses, rather bizarrely we were told our claim was with Virgin Atlantic, despite the fact their flight was the only one that ran to time!
    - On suggesting it go through the ADR as we'd now got to an impasse, they said there was no need to as they were already settling with as much as they already legally could.
    - My letters of complaint weren't responded to. I have asked while on calls to the agent why my 2 year old son was removed from our booking a placed on a flight himself, causing us huge issues with re-bookings, getting seated together and his special assistance requirements due to his disability - her response was that it's just down to human error. She even said that as the bookings were linked it shouldn't have been an issue - obviously I've just imagined all the hours on the phone and at check in desks trying to add my son back into our party, trying to select seats online with two different reference numbers, having a long wait while Virgin Atlantic were trying to over-ride their system to generate boarding passes for a minor travelling himself!
    - Even after verbal settlements/offers I've then had to chase delayed written confirmations and payments.

    Over to the CAA and the ADR.........
  • Hi all,

    Just an update on this - the ADR ruled that the return flight would have been eligible for 600 Euros per person had we got on the flight to Amsterdam, but as we chose not to fly weren't eligible. They advised we accept the 250pp offer as that even that could be removed due to us not flying. We did highlight that the flight to Amsterdam had dropped well below minimum transfer time and would have left us stranded overnight there with a disabled child but this made no difference to their decision.

    We did find it rather strange that KLM agreed that we were due compensation but argued on the amount due to the code share factor, whereas their regulator agreed on the amount due but not that we were due it.

    On the United flights out we are still waiting on PACT at the CAA - we've been about 15 weeks now. I have challenged the waiting time and they have responded that regrettably there is a long back-log and they are still waiting a claims handler to asses our claim.
  • JPears
    JPears Posts: 5,084
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    Thanks for the update. Did you get the full Euro600 for the cancelled outward journey?
    I'l reread the saga of your return journey later.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
  • JPears
    JPears Posts: 5,084
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    edited 15 January 2020 at 11:32AM
    Havbing re-read your orginal post, it would sem your return journey compensation is probably limited to the euro250 leg.
    I don't think the Gahan case/ruling covers this, although I would love to stand to be corrected!

    The flight by Virgin was on time. If the whole jorney LA> Glasgow via Manchester then Amsterdam was boked by KLM, and Virgin is a code share partner with them, then I feel you are due the 50% Euro 300, if you eventualy arived back in Glasgow (by car?) 4 hours or less later than your original sheduled arrival time. In which case it is probably not worth the grief for the aditional Euro50. If you arived back in Glasgow more than 4 hours later then it might be worth the fight, after a re-read of the Gahan case.
    Personally I think ADR are talking the usual BS in their reasoning.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
  • EvaLewis
    EvaLewis Posts: 13
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    JPears wrote: »
    Havbing re-read your orginal post, it would sem your return journey compensation is probably limited to the euro250 leg.
    I don't think the Gahan case/ruling covers this, although I would love to stand to be corrected!

    The flight by Virgin was on time. If the whole jorney LA> Glasgow via Manchester then Amsterdam was boked by KLM, and Virgin is a code share partner with them, then I feel you are due the 50% Euro 300, if you eventualy arived back in Glasgow (by car?) 4 hours or less later than your original sheduled arrival time. In which case it is probably not worth the grief for the aditional Euro50. If you arived back in Glasgow more than 4 hours later then it might be worth the fight, after a re-read of the Gahan case.
    Personally I think ADR are talking the usual BS in their reasoning.

    Thanks JPears,
    I don't think we arrived home that much later than the flight would have, although my memory of the 4 hour drive having been awake for 30 hours is a little hazy!!!
    I will have a read of the Gahan case thanks, although as you say I'm not sure it's worth the fight for the extra 50 Euros PP.
    Pretty unimpressed with the ADR - at least KLM recognised the logic and agreed compensation was due.

    We wait for the CAA.......
  • EvaLewis
    EvaLewis Posts: 13
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    edited 13 November 2020 at 3:23PM
    Hi all,
    Thanks for the support so far on this.

    Update - The CAA replied in August and informed us that United Airlines had re-evaluated their position following their intervention and that they would be contacting us to confirm payment of compensation. The CAA told us to give United 12 weeks to get in touch
    Further Update - 12 weeks passed and nothing happened. Contacted United this week - they are refusing to pay, saying they don't think it warrants it and case is closed!!!  :s

    It's looking like the small claims court is needed - I'll have a look through the forums but just wondering what the general feel for success rate in instances where an airline has refused a regulator ruling would be?

    Many Thanks :smile:
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