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    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 22nd May 18, 8:22 PM
    • 1,827 Posts
    • 604 Thanks
    Justice13075
    and also check bottonline
    • JPears
    • By JPears 22nd May 18, 8:56 PM
    • 4,780 Posts
    • 1,297 Thanks
    JPears
    I suspect Virgin are blurring facts and reality here to dissuade you from a claim.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Wendy Jo
    • By Wendy Jo 24th May 18, 12:51 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy Jo
    Delayed flight VS0066 Montego Bay to Gatwick
    Unfortunately it was 24th June 2012 and so coming up to the 6 year limitations. I triedEUClaim.com but the advice is it is too close to claim.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 24th May 18, 1:08 PM
    • 4,780 Posts
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    JPears
    Wendy, if you DIY claim/legal route you have time. Send your NBA now with 2 weeks notice. As a bolster/encouragement to Virgin you could also send copies of your proposed court papers all completed but unsigned and dated to show you have intent which you would then submit if they don't pay within 14 days.
    Its doable but you'll need to be organised. And it will actually put pressure on VA.
    They are trying to run you out of time, clear and simple.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Wendy Jo
    • By Wendy Jo 24th May 18, 2:15 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy Jo
    Thanks very much. NBA - is this the small claims application? Is there any mileage of escalating to Aviation ADR? Or is it too late for this? The other problem I have is the booking details are from my written notes at the time, the original booking confirmation through email has long gone through orange.net when they closed this down.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 24th May 18, 2:28 PM
    • 4,780 Posts
    • 1,297 Thanks
    JPears
    You need to download Vauban's super informative guide (google it) - all the info you need is there. NBA = notice before action. Basically final (legally essential) warning before you go to court.
    You can send VA a SAR, see if they have any details, flight info on you.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Wendy Jo
    • By Wendy Jo 24th May 18, 3:31 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy Jo
    Cheers JPears....got it! I'm going for it.
    • Wendy Jo
    • By Wendy Jo 28th May 18, 9:58 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy Jo
    Ok, so NBA sent and response received...they seem pretty certain.


    Thank you for your recent email. I understand that you may be disappointed with the outcome of your claim so please allow me to explain a little further.

    As you are aware your claim has been denied on the grounds that the delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

    Guidelines on applying ‘extraordinary circumstances’ have been developed by the national enforcement bodies (NEBs) across Europe, including the UK Civil Aviation Authority. In your particular claim the reason for your delay was beyond the control of Virgin Atlantic due to a flight planning system failure which impacted a number of airlines globally.

    As a result of this system failure our operational teams had to implement a manual plan for all our aircraft movements , worldwide. A combination of the system failure and the requirement to to re-plan aircraft movements meant that flights were unfortunately and regrettably delayed. Our staff worked hard to keep delays to a minimum however the scale of the system failure meant that this was beyond our control.

    We do not underestimate the disappointment that this decision may cause you or for the delay and disruption that you experienced to your travel plans.
    • Vauban
    • By Vauban 28th May 18, 5:42 PM
    • 4,729 Posts
    • 2,094 Thanks
    Vauban
    Ok, so NBA sent and response received...they seem pretty certain.


    Thank you for your recent email. I understand that you may be disappointed with the outcome of your claim so please allow me to explain a little further.

    As you are aware your claim has been denied on the grounds that the delay was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

    Guidelines on applying ‘extraordinary circumstances’ have been developed by the national enforcement bodies (NEBs) across Europe, including the UK Civil Aviation Authority. In your particular claim the reason for your delay was beyond the control of Virgin Atlantic due to a flight planning system failure which impacted a number of airlines globally.

    As a result of this system failure our operational teams had to implement a manual plan for all our aircraft movements , worldwide. A combination of the system failure and the requirement to to re-plan aircraft movements meant that flights were unfortunately and regrettably delayed. Our staff worked hard to keep delays to a minimum however the scale of the system failure meant that this was beyond our control.

    We do not underestimate the disappointment that this decision may cause you or for the delay and disruption that you experienced to your travel plans.
    Originally posted by Wendy Jo
    These "EU guidelines" were drawn up by the CAA at the behest of the airlines - and have been trashed by courts, who note that they bear no relation to the law. (You can form your own view about why the CAA might have done this.)

    If the problem was that the airline's own systems failed, then this is an operational issue for the airlines and not extraordinary circumstances. You are therefore entitled to all the protections afforded under the Regulation. You might need to go to court to get it - but I can't seen an airline defending under these circumstances. It's a pretty clear case in my view.

    How does it make you feel that the airline should so clearly mislead you in this way - and with such a patronising tone? I find it extraordinary.
    • Wendy Jo
    • By Wendy Jo 28th May 18, 7:32 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy Jo
    I must admit, there are 3 things that stand out for me
    1) my recollection of being told that there was a technical fault with the aircraft and the delay was due to awaiting a new part - no mention of manual flight planning at the time
    2) no mention of global disruption on 24th June 2012 worldwide in relation to 'flight planning systems being faulty'. This may be due to my lay person's understanding of external flight planning systems. Surely the airline choose which flight planning system they use??
    3) I requested VA to refer me to the court cases mentioned in the first response specifically around flight system planning faults, no mention in the 2nd response.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 28th May 18, 8:54 PM
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    • 1,297 Thanks
    JPears
    That, in my opinion, is not a valid EC. Airlines operating systems malfunction are the responsibility of the airline, whether run by a third party or not. This is no different to an aircraft tech issue.
    Also the fact the they responded so quickly with a fob off is suspicious. It would seem they really don't want you to go to court. Give them one last chance, quickly, within your time limits, stating you don't consider that an EC. Then if not favourable outcome, put in your court papers.
    It will cost them alot to defend.
    Welcome Lord Vaubans. Have you been on sabbatical for a new hat?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Wendy Jo
    • By Wendy Jo 12th Jun 18, 3:36 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy Jo
    Ok, so at last a reply received to my email. Your thoughts would be welcome. Surprised the reason for the delay has turned out similar to what i was told after informing them I felt I had been misled. Forms at the ready to go.
    -----------------

    Thank you for your further email regarding your claim for compensation under EC261/2004.

    I am sorry for your continued disappointment with our responses. In an effort to help, I have looked through all of our flight reports to clarify the exact cause of your flight disruption.! On this particular day, your flight was impacted by an external flight planning system failure, and had a significant departure delay. This system failure, impacted many airlines globally, not just Virgin Atlantic and impacted a vast number of flights over several days. I can see that the aircraft was also a little late leaving London Gatwick, due to damage being discovered on one of the engines upon landing that morning. This was caused by a foreign object during the inbound flight and required immediate repair. This issue did increase your delay further but the bulk of your delay was due to the flight planning issue.

    As the external company!!!8217;s flight planning system issues would have been completely beyond our control, we have correctly defended your claim for compensation under EC261/2004. In addition, had we attributed your delay to the aircraft damage, we would also defend any claims for compensation, as inflight damage sustained during the preceding flight and caused by a foreign object is also classed as an extraordinary circumstance (category 20 Unexpected Flight Safety shortcomings).

    I can only apologise if you feel you have been given any misleading information as that would certainly not be our intention. In terms of claims under EC261/2004 the bulk of a delay is always used as the basis for defending or accepting liability for compensation. In this instance, both root causes of your delay are defendable as extraordinary and as such we will continue to defend your claim for compensation.

    I am sorry if we haven!!!8217;t been able to respond as you would prefer but confirm that our decision will remain unchanged.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 12th Jun 18, 4:30 PM
    • 4,780 Posts
    • 1,297 Thanks
    JPears
    In 2 words - bovine excrement.
    Continue with claim.
    NBA sent?
    What does an online checker such as Botts say about your claim?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • Wendy Jo
    • By Wendy Jo 12th Jun 18, 4:45 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Wendy Jo
    Botts say theoretically I have a claim but to close to time scales. NBA sent two emails ago and I have completed court form to send next day delivery. Fingers crossed.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 12th Jun 18, 8:02 PM
    • 4,780 Posts
    • 1,297 Thanks
    JPears
    go for it.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • ahjury
    • By ahjury 25th Jun 18, 8:14 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ahjury
    Flight cancelled following Air Traffic strike not covered by Virgin travel insurance
    I took out an annual silver policy with Virgin money and got advised very last minute while in France that our return flight was cancelled. My in-laws were over to look after the kids and had flights booked to return home, so we needed to get back somehow. By now the next available flight was three days later, which wasn't an option for us as as we would have no child care cover so booked a Eurostar train home that day thinking this would be covered by insurance. WRONG. We managed to lose a day of our holiday, but got back much the same time as we would have otherwise. Virgin money refused the claim as we weren't delayed in our return home. It seems slightly perverse that we may have been covered if we'd stuck out for 3 days which would have been rather more than we were trying to claim on the Eurostar ticket. Any ideas if this is a Virgin specific issue or have others been hit likewise ?
    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 25th Jun 18, 8:31 PM
    • 1,827 Posts
    • 604 Thanks
    Justice13075
    This should be on the virgin thread
    • JPears
    • By JPears 25th Jun 18, 9:23 PM
    • 4,780 Posts
    • 1,297 Thanks
    JPears
    Well it should be on the relevant airline thread, not necessarily Virgin
    Who did you fly with, and post on that airline's thread, not your personal new one.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • ahjury
    • By ahjury 26th Jun 18, 6:13 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ahjury
    Flew with Easyjet, but nothing to do with them or Virgin airlines. More an issue with Virgin Money Insurance policy I was highlighting.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 26th Jun 18, 7:53 AM
    • 4,780 Posts
    • 1,297 Thanks
    JPears
    Then repost on the EJ thread. The major issue is why your flight was cancelled, you maybe due compensation or re-routing costs.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
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