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  • moggylover
    Wow you REALLY don't know anything about HEATING. What does electric have to do with it?? They STORE heat you imbecile hence why they only use 17 mins in the hour. Heat loss in all my rooms was accurately calculated to determine the correct size and power rad so again you argument falls flat on its face. I had the heat loss calculated by 3 heating companies.

    Typical modern 40cm room with two exterior walls, 2 double glazed windows ... heat loss 3.5 out of 10 = 1.4 kw rad. 1.4 x 10p = 14p per hour
    28% or that is under 4p an hour. Want to see my bill??

    I DO NOT WORK FOR ELTI but I have invested over 20,000 in their rads and they rock. I suppose you heat your house with fan heaters? haha, i dont think so.
    Originally posted by supertuber




    For that you could have had a really GOOD heating system
    "there are some persons in this World who, unable to give better proof of being wise, take a strange delight in showing what they think they have sagaciously read in mankind by uncharitable suspicions of them"
    (Herman Melville)
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 19th Jan 11, 11:35 PM
    • 28,037 Posts
    • 13,884 Thanks
    Cardew
    I DO NOT WORK FOR ELTI but I have invested over 20,000 in their rads and they rock. I suppose you heat your house with fan heaters? haha, i dont think so.
    Originally posted by supertuber
    If you are content with your 20,000 purchase, why get so upset and resort to personal insults?

    Is it so important to you that people believe you have made a great choice?

    If they fully meet your expectations, that is what this money saving forum is all about; people making wise decisions.

    Prospective purchasers can read these posts decide who has a vested interest in the success of these radiators and if they are good value.
    • grahamc2003
    • By grahamc2003 19th Jan 11, 11:58 PM
    • 1,747 Posts
    • 1,373 Thanks
    grahamc2003
    Wow you REALLY don't know anything about HEATING. What does electric have to do with it?? They STORE heat you imbecile hence why they only use 17 mins in the hour. Heat loss in all my rooms was accurately calculated to determine the correct size and power rad so again you argument falls flat on its face. I had the heat loss calculated by 3 heating companies.

    Typical modern 40cm room with two exterior walls, 2 double glazed windows ... heat loss 3.5 out of 10 = 1.4 kw rad. 1.4 x 10p = 14p per hour
    28% or that is under 4p an hour. Want to see my bill??

    I DO NOT WORK FOR ELTI but I have invested over 20,000 in their rads and they rock. I suppose you heat your house with fan heaters? haha, i dont think so.
    Originally posted by supertuber
    A second chartered engineer confirming what the first chartered engineer implied that you know nothing of the basic physics, which is that for 1kwh of electricity, you get 1kwh of heat. It simply doesn't matter one iota whether the fins on your radiators are coated with rare aluminium powder or custard, nor whether you've spent 20 quid or twenty grand on them.

    We don't need to see your bill because whatever it is, if you had used the same amount of electricity in the cheapest heater you can find, your room would have been heated to the same level.
    Last edited by grahamc2003; 20-01-2011 at 12:01 AM.
  • Donkeydaz
    Hey guys, quite a heated discussion going on here...no pun intended

    New to the site and looking for some advice/help.

    I am a 3rd year mature electrician apprentice and live in a flat with my partner and our 2 year old child. After living in this new property during the cold winter it is extremely cold and is costing a fortune to heat with the small heaters we have.

    My landlord is willing to pay for heaters and for all materials to put heaters in the flat, and i have agreed to install them labour free.

    We have a large open plan lounge/dining room in the loft. 9m x 4m and 2 bedrooms both about 4m x 4m. I originally was looking at getting the Dimplex Duo Night Storage Heaters. 2 x 500N in the lounge/diner and 2x 400N, 1 per bedroom.

    And then i saw these Rointe heaters in my local wholesaler which caught my eye. The Installation and materials needed to install the dimplex system is much more work and more materials than this system, and are very big and not nice to look at, the Rointe system looks good and will require less work to install.

    The flat i live in is above a shop, the ground floor is the shop, then the 1st floor is the store room, and my flat is on the 3rd and 4th, if i was to install the Dimplex system it would require alot of work as a 16mm cable would need to be installed from the basement up to my floor which is going to be a nightmare, or the Rointe system i can install a 2nd board in our bedroom next to the exsisting board and be alot easier.....so now im in a muddle on which to get.

    Im under the impression that if i was to get the Rointe Rads i could get them to heat the rooms up during the night time, and then during the day set the room temperature to very very low so the rad doesnt heat the room but keeps the oil warm and just trickels every few hours, then heats back up again intime for when we get home from work to save money???

    Or am i better to go for the Dimplex system?
    The property is a old builing, solid walls, no insulation and windows are old sash wooden windows.

    Any advice would be very much appreciated.

    Cheers
    DonkeyDaz
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 20th Jan 11, 9:36 PM
    • 28,037 Posts
    • 13,884 Thanks
    Cardew
    Would your landlord be happy to pay Rointe prices?

    Rointe are not storage heaters like the Dimplex Duoheat.

    Surely the Rointe heaters would be a doddle to install - they are just radiators and be no different to any other simple panel heater etc. You could even have heaters with a 13 amp plug.

    Presumably you are on an Economy 7 tariff to contemplate Dimple -Duoheat?
  • Donkeydaz
    I live in Guernsey, so ours is a little different. >>

    Super Economy 12
    The Super Economy 12 Tariff is divided into two rates. The normal rate is effective during peak periods during the day when demand for electricity is high. The lower rate is effective during two periods of the day, the afternoon and at night, when demand is low. The tariff is particularly suitable for customers with storage heating systems.
    Low Rate Periods
    A 10 hour period between 7:45pm and 8:15am*2
    A 2 hour period between 12:00 noon and 4:40pm*2
    *2 According to the time band available at the time of application. Please contact the Meter Section on 241990 for further information on available time bands.
    Standing Charge 14.82 per quarter*1 Normal rate 13.98 pence per unit Low rate 5.80 pence per unit
    the heaters i can get are pretty cheap, as we live on a island we get VAT free and of course get cheaper again for trade price.
    • grahamc2003
    • By grahamc2003 21st Jan 11, 7:26 PM
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    • 1,373 Thanks
    grahamc2003
    You may be correct that they are quicker to install, don't need floorboards ripping up etc etc. That is not what is irritating to me and others obviously informed on here.

    You are still spouting what is just rubbish about the effectiveness of these heaters. Yes, they are 100% efficient, just as all other electric heating is. For the same electriity cost, they produce exactly the same amount of heat as the cheapest heater. If they are 1kw, and they cycle off for 43 minutes every hour and maintain the temperature, then that means your room loses heat at about 300w, and any form of heating supplying 300w would produce the same result. You could even heat using 3x100w light bulbs. (btw, that level of heat loss seems unbelievably low to me if the ambient temperature is anything like it is where I am - are you overegging your omlette in other areas too?).

    The 'refractory ceramics' (lol!) inside your heaters cannot change the physics. They cant generate heat. They are not magic. They may delay the heat release a while - but storage heaters delay the heat release for a much longer period, if that's what you want.

    I'm afraid there's nothing special with your heaters, except the marketing, a meaningless website and meaningless buzzwords like 'refractory ceramics' and judging by your reaction, you seem unwilling to accept that. You've paid 20 grand for some heaters which produce the same heat as twenty quids worth, and I don't think you should encourage others on a money saving site to do the same by posting incorrect statements.

    If you're happy with them, then fine. Only please don't try making out they are somehow cheaper to run than any other electric heaters when you have been told by several people suitably qualified that they aren't.
    Last edited by grahamc2003; 21-01-2011 at 8:40 PM.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 21st Jan 11, 8:03 PM
    • 28,037 Posts
    • 13,884 Thanks
    Cardew
    ELKA STYLE Rads
    I don't mean to sound rude and I apologise if I have been but I get irritated when people slate a product they actually don't know anything about.
    Originally posted by supertuber
    They STORE heat you imbecile
    Mmmm

    Your posts, and your website, are just full of meaningless drivel.

    Just for the information of anyone who finds these posts on ELKA heaters via Google, as has been stated many times, these hugely overpriced heaters produce no more heat, for the same running costs, than any other heater - from a 10 fan heater upwards.

    Personally I have little doubt you have a financial interest in the marketing of these heaters.

    If you haven't, then you will have no objection to others being warned about the ridiculous claims and advised not to waste their money.
  • steviegee1982
    Hi All (and especially Cardew).

    You helped me last year when i was looking to change my storage heaters and you put me off buying Rointe radiators.

    I didnt change at all in the end as my job went to short-time so I thought I'd better save my money!!! Anyway, the elctrican rang me yesterday to see if I wanted to look at changing again.

    In the conversation he said that he had heard that Rointe had been investigated by the Advertising Standards Agency and had lost a case.

    I googled 'Rointe standards' and found a link to the Advertising Standards website......it turns out that Rointe have indeed been investigated by The Advertising Standards.

    Rointe could not offer any proof of their 60% energy savings claim and they arent allowed to say that anymore.

    So I would like to say a big thank you to all of you for your advice which has saved me hundreds of pounds on heaters making claims they cant back up.

    T H A N K Y O U
    • fb1969
    • By fb1969 28th Jan 11, 11:03 AM
    • 488 Posts
    • 684 Thanks
    fb1969
    As a regular reader of this part of the forum I read this thread with interest and appreciate the knowledgeable posts from Cardew and grahamc.

    I've just pootled off to google and found this in relation to steviegee's post www.asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2011/1/Rointe/TF_ADJ_49624.aspx
    Last edited by fb1969; 28-01-2011 at 12:00 PM. Reason: carp typing!
    • grahamc2003
    • By grahamc2003 28th Jan 11, 11:26 AM
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    grahamc2003
    I just love the bit about explosions! They said, effectively, that gas boilers caused 400,000 explosions in 2008 ...

    According to statistics, in 2008 there were more than 400,000 explosions of different magnitudes when using combustion for boilers or water heaters

    And how did they get that figure? Well, they searched in Google or similar using 'gas' and 'explosion' and managed to get 400,000 web pages containing those words!

    I'd say there is zero doubt that these guys are out to knowingly mislead people.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 28th Jan 11, 3:09 PM
    • 28,037 Posts
    • 13,884 Thanks
    Cardew
    I just love the bit about explosions! They said, effectively, that gas boilers caused 400,000 explosions in 2008 ...


    And how did they get that figure? Well, they searched in Google or similar using 'gas' and 'explosion' and managed to get 400,000 web pages containing those words!

    .
    Originally posted by grahamc2003
    I just googled 'Murders in Bradford in 2009' and got 74,700 web pages.

    So whilst it is not strictly 'money saving' I would advise you all to stay away from Bradford as it is clearly a very dangerous place - what are the police doing about the situation!

    The point about these firms like Rointe and others, is that despite the ruling they can carefully re-word their adverts so the implication on savings is the same.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 28th Jan 11, 8:39 PM
    • 10,354 Posts
    • 13,277 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    I just googled 'Murders in Bradford in 2009' and got 74,700 web pages.
    Originally posted by Cardew
    I googled murders midsomer 2011 and got 478,000 results - and we're still only in January!!!
  • worcesteryokel
    I have found this thread after going to CEF today ostensibly to buy a couple of storage heaters for an outbuilding, but they are really pushing Rointe heaters, they have one belting out heat at the counter and there are promotional leaflets everywhere, which still carry the 60% energy saving claim and no risk of explosion claim which the ASA told them to remove in the above mentioned adjudication. The sales pitch made me smell a rat, which it seems I was quite right to do, so thanks for the clear explanations on the thread about the physics behind the claims.

    I know nothing about Elka heaters, but when people invest so much emotion in praising them and insulting people who disagree with them, my suspicions are similarly raised.

    I don't think I will be buying one.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 29th Jan 11, 9:52 PM
    • 28,037 Posts
    • 13,884 Thanks
    Cardew
    I have found this thread after going to CEF today ostensibly to buy a couple of storage heaters for an outbuilding, but they are really pushing Rointe heaters, they have one belting out heat at the counter and there are promotional leaflets everywhere, which still carry the 60% energy saving claim and no risk of explosion claim which the ASA told them to remove in the above mentioned adjudication. The sales pitch made me smell a rat, which it seems I was quite right to do, so thanks for the clear explanations on the thread about the physics behind the claims.

    I know nothing about Elka heaters, but when people invest so much emotion in praising them and insulting people who disagree with them, my suspicions are similarly raised.

    I don't think I will be buying one.
    Originally posted by worcesteryokel
    It is really excellent that you found this thread by 'googling'.

    Over the past few years we have had load of people coming on to MSE and singing the praises of similar electrical radiators with magic properties and available at unbelievable prices. - someone paid 2,500 for 2(two) radiators. It is certain that many of these people are employees.

    Hopefully anyone Googling the name of the firm, like yourself, will read some unbiased and accurate advice - and it will be an 'own goal' for those trying to hoodwink customers.

    Sadly they will find a ready market in those less well informed.
  • worcesteryokel
    I went back to CEF today to drop off a copy of the ASA ruling, and whaddya know, all promotional material for Rointe has been removed since last week. The boy at the counter said something about them always having to order more, but the leaflet boxes and advertising stands were also gone, so I take it they have had a diktat from on high to get rid of it.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 5th Feb 11, 9:16 PM
    • 28,037 Posts
    • 13,884 Thanks
    Cardew
    The problem is that firms like this can simply start up using a different name with the same product and same sales tactics - implying that their heaters give out more heat.

    It takes a year or two for their activities to be curtailed and they have a new set of victims. Their profit margins must be absolutely huge.
  • Mattm70
    HELP!!

    I am about a week away from starting to build a home, the only problem is that the only fuel we have is Oil which is cost more each year and is now a stomping 800 for 8 months.. i bought a rointe 5 element radiator which had the 60% energy efficiant label!!! *Naughty*.. when i tested the energy output it was a wapping 500W!! this stayed like it for a while which is causing me a huge worry.. When i read this my fears have just grown but now i am in a panic as i have one week before work starts and now i have no heating... is there a good form of electric heating?? if not what can i do as money is tight and i dont want huge bills every month.. PLEASE HELP!..
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 21st Feb 11, 7:48 PM
    • 28,037 Posts
    • 13,884 Thanks
    Cardew
    HELP!!

    I am about a week away from starting to build a home, the only problem is that the only fuel we have is Oil which is cost more each year and is now a stomping 800 for 8 months.. i bought a rointe 5 element radiator which had the 60% energy efficiant label!!! *Naughty*.. when i tested the energy output it was a wapping 500W!! this stayed like it for a while which is causing me a huge worry.. When i read this my fears have just grown but now i am in a panic as i have one week before work starts and now i have no heating... is there a good form of electric heating?? if not what can i do as money is tight and i dont want huge bills every month.. PLEASE HELP!..
    Originally posted by Mattm70
    Welcome to the forum.

    It has been stated time and again that all Electrical heating gives out the same heat output for the same running cost, with the exception of heat pumps which are very expensive and give many people problems.

    You really need to read all the threads in this section - there is no 'one size fits all' answer as all forms of electrical heating have their drawbacks and all are expensive to run.

    Above all don't be fooled into thinking there is any electrical heating system like Rointe that is endowed with magic features that enable them to produce more heat - a 10 fan heater or 20 oil filled radiator from Argos produces the same heat for your bucks as any other heater.

    P.S.
    How much did your 500w Rointe heater cost?
  • faultytowers
    Hi i,m not sure if its good as yet but i had to have new floors in my house downstaires, so they are insulated. i wanted tiled floors and it was surgested to use electric underfloor heating as i have no gas. you can set it to come on and off when you want the floor is warm to walk on i set it at 20deg in the bad freeze and it was lovley and warm. Not sure on running costs yet as only had it in 6 months but i,m happy. was looking at wall heaters for upstairs but might wait and have underfloor upstairs aswel.
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