time off for medical treatment

I may be worrying over nothing atm, but curious as to where i would stand if it does happen

My bipolar s currently unstable (i'm hypermanic at the moment), last time i saw my GP there was talking of taking me off my mood stabiliser as its bad for you in the long term (heart problems apparently), with my mood destabilizing and me already being on the max dosage of current mood stabilizer i can forsee needing to change medication.

Last time this happened (with my anti depressent) i had to take time off sick because the side effects were so severe that i was barely coherent and couldn't safely work. This counted against me as i hit the absence threshold and i got a disciplinary.

I'm now worried that if i do start new medication and experience severe side effects that i will have to take time off (possibly resulting in a further disciplinery)

How would my employer view this? My understanding was time off for treatment could be a reasonable adjustment (comparing apples with oranges but if i had cancer they wouldn't hesitate in allowing me time off for chemotherapy for example, and we had a few pregnant members of staff who needed time off for pregnancy related issues), is that the case?

Sorry for the long thread but its something i'm very worried about and i don;t know where i legally stand so any advice would be appreciated. :o

Comments

  • sangie595
    sangie595 Posts: 6,092 Forumite
    Actually, it is not anywhere near that simple. An employer may, if they wish, adjust the threshold for people with disabilities. That is an adjustments - a few extra days at best - and you must ask for it. The same rules apply for cancer as for you. They may "agree" time off, but it will still be counted as sickness and the threshold appropriate to that person (if amended) will apply. Reasonable adjustments, where appropriate, are agreed on an individual basis. Sickness due to disability is not routinely discounted.

    Pregnancy is treated differently in law, and the law sets down the correct procedures - time off sick is discounted for these purposes provided the sickness is pregnancy related.
  • Crazy_Jamie
    Crazy_Jamie Posts: 2,246 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Sangie is right that this is not a simple situation. You've already mentioned reasonable adjustments, which your employer has an obligation to undertake under section 20 the Equality Act 2010. Strictly speaking in accordance with the legislation you don't need to ask for reasonable adjustments, but it is a very good idea to do so. Realistically there are two common adjustments that relate to absence management policies. The first, which has already been mentioned, is to adjust the threshold at which the policy kicks in. The second is to discount absences in their entirety that are caused by a disability. However, the duty is only to make reasonable adjustments, and what is or is not reasonable varies from case to case. Which is one of the reasons why it is important to engage with your employer, and if practicable it is a good idea to raise this with them before it becomes an issue.

    There is, for the sake of completeness, a second relevant section of the Equality Act 2010, namely section 15, which deals with discrimination arising from disability. That is where an employer treats a disabled person unfavourably because of something arising from their disability. In cases such as this, it is not unusual for allegations to made that an employer has treated a person unfavourably (i.e. disciplined or dismissed them) because of something arising from their disability (i.e. absence). However, there is a defence to a section 15 allegation, namely that the employer must show that the treatment is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. Generally speaking managing absence is seen as a legitimate aim, and the question is therefore whether the application of that policy is a proportionate means of achieving that, and in that respect a lot of the practical arguments are very similar to those involving claims under section 20.

    I appreciate that last paragraph is quite legal. In practice at this stage you really only need to be aware that the duty is to make reasonable adjustments, and the best thing for you to do is to engage with your employer in that respect.
    "MIND IF I USE YOUR PHONE? IF WORD GETS OUT THAT
    I'M MISSING FIVE HUNDRED GIRLS WILL KILL THEMSELVES."
  • TBagpuss
    TBagpuss Posts: 11,199 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Name Dropper
    As Sangie and Jamie say, it would be sensible for you to speak to your HR department ahead of time,before you change medication, to explain the situation and to ask for a reasonable adjustment, for example, a higher threshold for absences or for some or all of your absence (if you do end up needing time off) to be disregarded.

    T
    All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)
  • Scorpio33
    Scorpio33 Posts: 745 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    From an employers perspective, they would just be concerned about how much more time off you would need and if this would have any long term impact on your ability to be present to work.

    The threshold is there basically to serve as an alarm to look into why so much time off has happened and what the chances are of it happening again. Clearly this is something out of your control and you are doing the right thing in looking for different medication to resolve the reason for time off.

    Best you can do is to have an honest discussion with your employer, state what you are doing and state that you are doing this to prevent further time off, although there may be initial side effects which may warrant some initial time off.

    If you are a good employee and doing well, I can't see any employer wanting to discipline you for taking steps to reduce time off work as the cost and time of recruiting and training up would far outweigh any benefits of disciplining you. Saying that, if you are not performing well or if the company is looking to cut staff, they could well use this as a reason to look to manage you out of the business. Its a risk you take, but what is the alternative?
  • sangie595
    sangie595 Posts: 6,092 Forumite
    Scorpio33 wrote: »
    From an employers perspective, they would just be concerned about how much more time off you would need and if this would have any long term impact on your ability to be present to work.

    The threshold is there basically to serve as an alarm to look into why so much time off has happened and what the chances are of it happening again. Clearly this is something out of your control and you are doing the right thing in looking for different medication to resolve the reason for time off.

    Best you can do is to have an honest discussion with your employer, state what you are doing and state that you are doing this to prevent further time off, although there may be initial side effects which may warrant some initial time off.

    If you are a good employee and doing well, I can't see any employer wanting to discipline you for taking steps to reduce time off work as the cost and time of recruiting and training up would far outweigh any benefits of disciplining you. Saying that, if you are not performing well or if the company is looking to cut staff, they could well use this as a reason to look to manage you out of the business. Its a risk you take, but what is the alternative?
    That wouldn't be entirely true though. Capability or sickness absence procedures are absolute. With one or two exceptions, such as pregnancy and reasonable adjustments, they must be implemented to the rule, otherwise they are nothing but rubbish. So the performance of the person has nothing to do with it. An employer acting in the way that you suggest would be finding a fast route to a tribunal.
  • UKTigerlily
    UKTigerlily Posts: 4,702 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    I can't advise on the work issues, but is a Psychiatrist managing medication or a GP? Usually Bipolar people can't take Antidepressants (I imagine some do, but I know they induce mania in many of us) . . if Lithium, can you try a different brand? I've not heard of heart problems & take Lithium with another mood stabiliser, so maybe other brands/types would be ok? I'd definitely see a Psychiatrist though if you don't already.

    You have my sympathy though, i've just had medications increased & started & have really been hit hard by them, tho hopefully now i'm 3 weeks in i'm coming out of it, awful side effects x
  • System
    System Posts: 178,090 Community Admin
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    Thank you for the replies, not as clear cut as i hoped. Think the best plan of action is see what GP says and of i do change see if i can speak to my manager about maybe using a weeks holiday for the adjustment instead of sick leave? I'll have a think about it and see what is recommended. Thank you for the replies x
  • Tigsteroonie
    Tigsteroonie Posts: 24,954 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Photogenic
    I manage an individual with two health matters (one mental, one physical) that are acknowledged as life-disabling in line with the Equality Act. She has reasonable adjustments in place - last year it was that absences related to her disabilities were not counted towards the trigger for disciplinary activity; this year (due to a change in management approach) these absences are counted but she has a higher trigger level than the norm.

    She has been quite open about her mental health, and has engaged with the management team at all levels to ensure that we manage her in an appropriate way, which includes a Wellness Recovery Action Plan document that helps us to identify triggers and symptoms, and which contains her preferences in terms of action to be taken.

    Mental health conditions can be managed successfully at work.
    :heartpuls Mrs Marleyboy :heartpuls

    MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote

    :) Proud Parents to an Aut-some son :)
  • sangie595
    sangie595 Posts: 6,092 Forumite
    Thank you for the replies, not as clear cut as i hoped. Think the best plan of action is see what GP says and of i do change see if i can speak to my manager about maybe using a weeks holiday for the adjustment instead of sick leave? I'll have a think about it and see what is recommended. Thank you for the replies x
    That may well be a good strategic offer- using leave due may enable the employer to counter with some flexibility on the trigger points. Have a conversation with your manager, see what they say, and ask if there is any way the trigger points could be more flexible, even if it is just for this occasion. Then you could offer to take some as leave if that works for you. If you can get an equitable agreement, things will be smoother, and the reduction of stress will no doubt help toy anyway.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.6K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.1K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.8K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173K Life & Family
  • 247.8K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards