Inheritance Tax/Care Home Fees/Depravation Assets

margaretclare · 5 July 2018 at 4:13PM

the district nurse came and prepared the insulin before meals but at home family can do that for her.

Do you check her blood glucose levels before injecting insulin/before meals?

I'm reminded of a phone conversation I had with a hospital doctor when DH developed septicaemia in 2008 and nearly died. This doctor had it firmly stuck in his head that I must be DH's carer and must know all about his insulin regime. As DH has been Type II for about 30 years, long before we met, and has been an insulin user since 1996, the year before we met, I've always been happy to leave the ins-and-outs of it to him. We had a right argy-bargy on the phone. The doctor simply could not accept that DH did it all himself and I really did not know what insulin he gave himself, and when. Also, 'he must have been prescribed a set dose'. No, he had not. It depends entirely on his blood glucose level results.

If I was really incapacitated I'd go for Oakhouse Foods. They're very convenient, tasty, you can get them in smaller portions. Sorry your mum doesn't like onion, sweetcorn or broccoli!

margaretclare · 5 July 2018 at 4:19PM

lisyloo wrote: »

I haven't read the enitre thread and not sure whether this is useful by my in-laws were each allowed just over £300 income per week before having to pay for home visits.
If you need more info on that let me know and I'll see if I can dig out the calculations, but I was suprised as I felt it was generous.

Each??

When DH was being sent home from hospital complete with no knee joint, 4 x daily antibiotics and a huge splint on his leg, I was told by a hospital SW that 'we'll only take half your joint account'. I assume she meant by that our joint income, since it doesn't go into a joint account.

Although I managed to cancel the care package which we were told we must have, the council Finance Dept were very soon on our case and wanted to visit to 'assess DH's income' within days. I did work out how much 4 visits daily x 7 days a week would cost, and it wasn't cheap.

lisyloo · 5 July 2018 at 4:56PM

Yes that was each in Bath & NE Somerset (although they didn't both get visits at the same time).

I was told by a hospital SW that 'we'll only take half your joint account'.

I don't have the context but I'd assume she meant half savings.
If savings are in a joint account then they are assumed to be 50/50.

Income is single, so pensions or AA would be individual.
If there is a joint pension credit claim it would be split 50/50.

I did work out how much 4 visits daily x 7 days a week would cost, and it wasn't cheap.

We got it privately at one point (MIL went into hospital but FIL had a good relationship with the carers so we wanted to keep the same people in place). It was £15 per visit.

I believe their visits were one hour but that included help with showering which would take some time (I don't think either of them ever took this up).

£15x4x7=£420 for the maximum

SpideressUK · 5 July 2018 at 5:24PM

SevenOfNine wrote: »

Interesting how your brother links HIS debt with a need for your mother's income! Time he took responsibility for his own decisions & actions & stopped looking to his mummy to bail him out.

I think you may have already hit on an acceptable plan, which may avoid DoA accusations further down the line (so far your brother is responsible for what he's been doing). Granny accommodation build on to your house. Self contained for mum, you can provide care (if not on a pension yourself then you can claim carer's allowance), & still have the privacy of your own home.

Might encounter a resistant LA should mum deteriorate to such a point further down the line & really needs a care home, but TBH you can cross that bridge when you come to it, & just do what's best for her now.

Of course, you need to set up LPA's & register them now if she looks like her mental health isn't what it once was.

Edit: I know she hasn't got altzheimers, but here is a discussion on a 'granny flat'. https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/threads/using-donors-money-for-granny-flat.107533/

Thanks. We already have heath and finance LPA set up. I had a quick look on that link and there are a lot of abbreviations I do not know so will have a good look later. Right now I am at my mum's and about to attempt painting the hall stairs and landing walls!

We got the LPA simply because dad has always done everything for her. She has never done bill paying, budgeting etc and has no idea about "online" at least this way we can keep her bills paid for eg the gardener

SpideressUK · 5 July 2018 at 5:30PM

margaretclare wrote: »

Do you check her blood glucose levels before injecting insulin/before meals?

I'm reminded of a phone conversation I had with a hospital doctor when DH developed septicaemia in 2008 and nearly died. This doctor had it firmly stuck in his head that I must be DH's carer and must know all about his insulin regime. As DH has been Type II for about 30 years, long before we met, and has been an insulin user since 1996, the year before we met, I've always been happy to leave the ins-and-outs of it to him. We had a right argy-bargy on the phone. The doctor simply could not accept that DH did it all himself and I really did not know what insulin he gave himself, and when. Also, 'he must have been prescribed a set dose'. No, he had not. It depends entirely on his blood glucose level results.

If I was really incapacitated I'd go for Oakhouse Foods. They're very convenient, tasty, you can get them in smaller portions. Sorry your mum doesn't like onion, sweetcorn or broccoli!

Yes do the finger blood test every time :-) I had *very* brief training from district nurse actually in the funeral parlour with my dad lying dead in his coffin behind her as I'd taken mum to see dad and nurse had come to do mum's insulin! When I tried to do what i thought I now knew how to do the next day it turned out ridiculously hard just to get the finger blood drawing thing working and to work out even how to open the sharps bin! 30 mins in Wetherspoons toilets, a frantic phone call to a nurse friend and it was ok :-)

Cheeky_Monkey · 5 July 2018 at 5:44PM

Just wanted to say that I'm glad that your mum has you in her corner trying to do what's best for her :T (as opposed to your leach of a brother who appears to be bleeding her dry financially).

margaretclare · 5 July 2018 at 6:38PM

lisyloo wrote: »

I don't have the context but I'd assume she meant half savings.
If savings are in a joint account then they are assumed to be 50/50.

No, we have no joint savings - we both save separately, ISAs etc can't be joint.

It was amazing how some of these people were able to pontificate without any factual or background knowledge. We have a joint account which is kept purely for paying bills. Most of the time there's very little in it.

Income is single, so pensions or AA would be individual.
If there is a joint pension credit claim it would be split 50/50.

Thank goodness, no pension credit! We're both still taxpayers.

We got it privately at one point (MIL went into hospital but FIL had a good relationship with the carers so we wanted to keep the same people in place). It was £15 per visit.

I believe their visits were one hour but that included help with showering which would take some time (I don't think either of them ever took this up).

They insisted on delivering a commode which they said DH would have to use. He didn't. It went back pristine, unused.

£15x4x7=£420 for the maximum

Thanks for this. Yes, I know it would have worked out expensive, but fortunately, with mother-wit and determination, we managed without it.

SpideressUK · 5 July 2018 at 6:39PM

Cheeky_Monkey wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I'm glad that your mum has you in her corner trying to do what's best for her :T (as opposed to your leach of a brother who appears to be bleeding her dry financially).

I think my brother is just like a drowning man who flails aimlessly hoping for something to hang on to. I know for sure he loves mum to bits but his financial circumstances force him to do things he may otherwise not do. Aside from all his "stuff" he has indeed kept mum out of a care home these last 7 months (I could not have her move in with me at that time as the adoption of our younger child had not gone through then so SWs would have not allowed my mum with us. My brother has also given mum a new lease of life by enabling her to be around her very young grandchildren, one of which was only born in Feb just gone. Inspite of the financial cost to mum what this respite chance has in fact given her is priceless.

margaretclare · 5 July 2018 at 6:39PM

badmemory wrote: »

I have to admit that I am a lot less concerned about £20/30k deprivation of assets than I am about someones total income being used to support someone elses lifestyle. What she is going through now is elder abuse.

Couldn't agree more.

elsien · 5 July 2018 at 6:49PM

Cheeky_Monkey wrote: »

Just wanted to say that I'm glad that your mum has you in her corner trying to do what's best for her :T (as opposed to your leach of a brother who appears to be bleeding her dry financially).

Actually yes, the more I think about it the crosser I'm getting. He's not renting a bigger house at the moment and there's no way she's costing him £800 pm so there is no justification to take that amount from her. He is using her.

There is always the option of housing with care she could look into. That is renting, so there will be a cost implication, but it's a step up from warden controlled in terms of the support on offer. The number of care visits would be assessed and may well be the 4 a day as before. The positives are that there are communal lunches people can buy if they wish, more company/activities, help if there is an emergency in between calls but people have their own flats so can cook if they wish.
The local authority would have more information. However under the Care Act assessments depend on where mum is "ordinarily resident" and as she's been away from home for so long there may be a bit of a debate about where home now is. But she is still entitled to an assessment regardless. That's where your 4 a day visits would have come from initially.

Can't say I blame your SIL for having reservation about the set up in the longer term. Chances are she's the one who'll end up doing the bulk of the caring and it's a big ask for someone you're not related to.

Inheritance Tax/Care Home Fees/Depravation Assets

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