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  • FIRST POST
    • chorltonian
    • By chorltonian 17th Jul 19, 1:42 PM
    • 9Posts
    • 2Thanks
    chorltonian
    0 WOW
    Vueling Overbooking - Denied Boarding
    • #1
    • 17th Jul 19, 1:42 PM
    0 WOW
    Vueling Overbooking - Denied Boarding 17th Jul 19 at 1:42 PM
    Would appreciate some advice here .. my wife and I were travelling from Manchester to Barcelona in May, and when I tried to check in online I was unable to without buying a seat. I should have spotted the warning signs there, but didn't and when we arrived at the check-in desk we were told the flight was full and we would be on stand-by along with (eventually) 9 others. We didn't get on the flight.

    The handling firm, Menzies Aviation, were pretty awful and lied to us several times, but to be fair to them they could only relay what Vueling "control" were telling them.

    They offered rebooking on the next available Vueling flight the following evening (so 24 hrs later), but there was a Jet2 flight the next morning which would get us to Barcelona just in time to meet up with friends and a connecting coach. They refused to book us on this, claiming first that they didn't code-share with Jet2, and when we pointed out this was irrelevant they decided they couldn't book it as we weren't guaranteed a seat.

    I eventually got so frustrated with them that I booked the Jet2 flight myself, in order to save the holiday, and checked-in online with a seat number there and then, with the intention of claiming the money back later. And it was a lot of money.

    Whilst all this was going on they made us fill out a form for the statutory compensation, 250 Euro each, which they have since paid. And they put us in a hotel for the night prior to us flying the following day, but it also cost us a night's hotel in Barcelona which by then could not be cancelled.

    It's weeks of emailing, with hopeless answers, phonecalls much the same until this morning when they have finally emailed stating that compensation was already paid and so there won't be any other refund for other expenses.

    So I'd like to know if they can do this? They failed to request any volunteers to be bumped, as per their stated procedure, and they failed to book us onto the next available flight which I understand to be their obligation.

    It is worth pursuing? and what would be the best channel, as I think I read somewhere that they don't respond to Resolve and aren't in the ADR scheme.
Page 1
    • bradders1983
    • By bradders1983 17th Jul 19, 1:47 PM
    • 634 Posts
    • 451 Thanks
    bradders1983
    • #2
    • 17th Jul 19, 1:47 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Jul 19, 1:47 PM
    Personally I would leave it, you got the €500 between you which is effectively to cover out of pocket expenses anyway. All part of the lovely EU compo scheme which we may not be a part of soon anyway, cheers everyone(!)
    • chorltonian
    • By chorltonian 17th Jul 19, 1:52 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    chorltonian
    • #3
    • 17th Jul 19, 1:52 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Jul 19, 1:52 PM
    Personally I would leave it, you got the €500 between you which is effectively to cover out of pocket expenses anyway. All part of the lovely EU compo scheme which we may not be a part of soon anyway, cheers everyone(!)
    Originally posted by bradders1983
    That would be fine except that the two flights cost me £574 and the unused hotel 117 Euros. And I don't think they should be allowed to get away with it - surely the compensation is for the inconvenience caused by their overbooking policy not the additional expenses resulting?
    • cubegame
    • By cubegame 17th Jul 19, 2:20 PM
    • 1,777 Posts
    • 962 Thanks
    cubegame
    • #4
    • 17th Jul 19, 2:20 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Jul 19, 2:20 PM
    Your mistake was unilaterally booking an alternative flight.
    • chorltonian
    • By chorltonian 17th Jul 19, 2:24 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    chorltonian
    • #5
    • 17th Jul 19, 2:24 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Jul 19, 2:24 PM
    Your mistake was unilaterally booking an alternative flight.
    Originally posted by cubegame
    They didn't leave me with much choice. The flight was there, seats available, aren't they obliged to book us on it? The next available flight?
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 17th Jul 19, 3:29 PM
    • 12,225 Posts
    • 7,965 Thanks
    Caz3121
    • #6
    • 17th Jul 19, 3:29 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Jul 19, 3:29 PM
    The Barcelona hotel would be a claim from travel insurance as a consequential loss
    • cubegame
    • By cubegame 17th Jul 19, 3:53 PM
    • 1,777 Posts
    • 962 Thanks
    cubegame
    • #7
    • 17th Jul 19, 3:53 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Jul 19, 3:53 PM
    They didn't leave me with much choice. The flight was there, seats available, aren't they obliged to book us on it? The next available flight?
    Originally posted by chorltonian
    They are. But if you do it yourself unilaterally you're not automatically entitled to a refund.

    Do you have travel insurance?
    • chorltonian
    • By chorltonian 17th Jul 19, 4:07 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    chorltonian
    • #8
    • 17th Jul 19, 4:07 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Jul 19, 4:07 PM
    They are. But if you do it yourself unilaterally you're not automatically entitled to a refund.

    Do you have travel insurance?
    Originally posted by cubegame
    Yes, I guess they might cover it?
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 17th Jul 19, 4:41 PM
    • 13,231 Posts
    • 9,101 Thanks
    Voyager2002
    • #9
    • 17th Jul 19, 4:41 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Jul 19, 4:41 PM
    Your mistake was unilaterally booking an alternative flight.
    Originally posted by cubegame

    I think the mistake was signing a form to accept the compensation.

    Anyway, my advice is to go legal: Vueling should have booked them on to the morning flight. That is the key point: stuff about not being able to check in and gate agents lying is really not relevant.
    • chorltonian
    • By chorltonian 17th Jul 19, 4:57 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    chorltonian
    I think the mistake was signing a form to accept the compensation.

    Anyway, my advice is to go legal: Vueling should have booked them on to the morning flight. That is the key point: stuff about not being able to check in and gate agents lying is really not relevant.
    Originally posted by Voyager2002
    Thanks. For me the point is, in the circumstances, are they obliged to book passengers on the next available flight, regardless of cost? My feeling is they wanted to push us onto their own flight as it doesn't really cost them anything.

    The Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 wording is not precise:-

    Denied boarding

    When an air carrier reasonably expects to deny boarding on a flight, it first calls for volunteers to surrender their reservations in exchange for certain benefits. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward to allow the remaining passengers to board the flight, the air carrier may then deny boarding to passengers against their will, in which case it must compensate them.

    Air carriers give priority to persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them.

    In the event of a flight cancellation or denied boarding, passengers affected have the right to:

    -reimbursement of the cost of the ticket within seven days or a return flight to the first point of departure or re-routing to their final destination;
    -care (refreshments, meals, hotel accommodation, transport between the airport and place of accommodation, two free telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails);
    -compensation totalling:

    -€250 for all flights of 1,500 kilometres or less;
    -€400 for all intra-EU flights of more than 1,500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1,500 and 3,500 kilometres;
    -€600 for all other flights.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 18th Jul 19, 11:37 AM
    • 6,895 Posts
    • 5,170 Thanks
    sheramber
    Thanks. For me the point is, in the circumstances, are they obliged to book passengers on the next available flight, regardless of cost? My feeling is they wanted to push us onto their own flight as it doesn't really cost them anything.

    The Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 wording is not precise:-

    Denied boarding

    When an air carrier reasonably expects to deny boarding on a flight, it first calls for volunteers to surrender their reservations in exchange for certain benefits. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward to allow the remaining passengers to board the flight, the air carrier may then deny boarding to passengers against their will, in which case it must compensate them.

    Air carriers give priority to persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them.

    In the event of a flight cancellation or denied boarding, passengers affected have the right to:

    -reimbursement of the cost of the ticket within seven days or a return flight to the first point of departure or re-routing to their final destination;
    -care (refreshments, meals, hotel accommodation, transport between the airport and place of accommodation, two free telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails);
    -compensation totalling:

    -€250 for all flights of 1,500 kilometres or less;
    -€400 for all intra-EU flights of more than 1,500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1,500 and 3,500 kilometres;
    -€600 for all other flights.
    Originally posted by chorltonian
    Where dies it say they must book you on the first available flight?
    • Caz3121
    • By Caz3121 18th Jul 19, 12:12 PM
    • 12,225 Posts
    • 7,965 Thanks
    Caz3121
    They failed to request any volunteers to be bumped, as per their stated procedure
    Originally posted by chorltonian
    how do you know this? I have been at many boarding gates where staff have made calls for volunteers...if you were not at the boarding gate you would not know. I have also been asked previously when checking bags in at the airport if I would take a later flight for compensation.
    • chorltonian
    • By chorltonian 18th Jul 19, 12:15 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    chorltonian
    Where dies it say they must book you on the first available flight?
    Originally posted by sheramber
    It doesn't, therein lies the problem.

    The CAA version reads:-

    Your other rights when bumped
    No matter whether you volunteered or were forced to be bumped, your airline must also let you choose between two options:

    1. Choose an alternative flight
    Your airline must offer you an alternative flight. It’s up to you whether to fly as soon as possible, or at a later date that suits you. Airlines often refer to this as being ‘rerouted’.

    If you want to fly as soon as possible, your airline must also provide care and assistance while you wait for the flight. This means food, drink, communications and accommodation, if you stay overnight.


    So if the airline only flew the route once a week, they would be within their rights to offer you their next available flight 7 days later?
    Last edited by chorltonian; 18-07-2019 at 12:18 PM.
    • chorltonian
    • By chorltonian 18th Jul 19, 12:17 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    chorltonian
    how do you know this? I have been at many boarding gates where staff have made calls for volunteers...if you were not at the boarding gate you would not know. I have also been asked previously when checking bags in at the airport if I would take a later flight for compensation.
    Originally posted by Caz3121
    I know this because we were at the gate from the moment it was called. And as for checking bags, most people were checked-in online so had no contact with check-in staff.
    • Heliflyguy
    • By Heliflyguy 18th Jul 19, 2:13 PM
    • 893 Posts
    • 436 Thanks
    Heliflyguy
    All part of the lovely EU compo scheme which we may not be a part of soon anyway, cheers everyone(!)
    Originally posted by bradders1983
    Pure guess work and most likely there will be rules/laws in place but you just love to bring Brexit into it whenever you can. You should freelance for the BBC you have their mindset.
    • Voyager2002
    • By Voyager2002 18th Jul 19, 2:18 PM
    • 13,231 Posts
    • 9,101 Thanks
    Voyager2002
    Pure guess work and most likely there will be rules/laws in place but you just love to bring Brexit into it whenever you can. You should freelance for the BBC you have their mindset.
    Originally posted by Heliflyguy

    Highly unlikely that we will have comparable rules in place: no other country does.And I think that people should be reminded of what we are about to lose...
    • bradders1983
    • By bradders1983 18th Jul 19, 2:39 PM
    • 634 Posts
    • 451 Thanks
    bradders1983
    Pure guess work and most likely there will be rules/laws in place but you just love to bring Brexit into it whenever you can. You should freelance for the BBC you have their mindset.
    Originally posted by Heliflyguy
    Hence why I said "may not be"

    As an aside, do you prefer a fried egg or pineapple?
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 18th Jul 19, 4:53 PM
    • 6,895 Posts
    • 5,170 Thanks
    sheramber
    It doesn't, therein lies the problem.

    The CAA version reads:-

    Your other rights when bumped
    No matter whether you volunteered or were forced to be bumped, your airline must also let you choose between two options:

    1. Choose an alternative flight
    Your airline must offer you an alternative flight. It’s up to you whether to fly as soon as possible, or at a later date that suits you. Airlines often refer to this as being ‘rerouted’.

    If you want to fly as soon as possible, your airline must also provide care and assistance while you wait for the flight. This means food, drink, communications and accommodation, if you stay overnight.


    So if the airline only flew the route once a week, they would be within their rights to offer you their next available flight 7 days later?
    Originally posted by chorltonian

    they failed to book us onto the next available flight which I understand to be their obligation.


    So, your understanding was not correct.

    You were not on the plane. Do you know they did not ask for volunteers on the plane.?
    • Hermione Granger
    • By Hermione Granger 18th Jul 19, 6:56 PM
    • 1,103 Posts
    • 1,815 Thanks
    Hermione Granger
    Highly unlikely that we will have comparable rules in place: no other country does.
    Originally posted by Voyager2002
    Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are not in the EU yet they are signatories to EC 261/2004.
    If they can be part of it despite not being EU members, why do you think the EU won't be if Brexit should go ahead?
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 19th Jul 19, 3:49 PM
    • 6,895 Posts
    • 5,170 Thanks
    sheramber
    Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are not in the EU yet they are signatories to EC 261/2004.
    If they can be part of it despite not being EU members, why do you think the EU won't be if Brexit should go ahead?
    Originally posted by Hermione Granger
    These countries have agreements with the EU for trade , finance etc

    iF Britain leaves with a deal then that may be part of the deal.

    If we leave with no deal then there will be no agreements.
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