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  • FIRST POST
    • BlueWagon
    • By BlueWagon 15th Aug 19, 3:17 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    BlueWagon
    TFL Rail Penalty Charge Notice - Appeal rejected
    • #1
    • 15th Aug 19, 3:17 PM
    TFL Rail Penalty Charge Notice - Appeal rejected 15th Aug 19 at 3:17 PM
    So, I had a penalty charge notice due to sufficient funds. I had a travel card from zone 2-4 and was travelling from london liverpool street to ilford. Carelessly forgetting I was in zone 1, i tapped out my oyster from liverpool street and it was obviously declined. Therefore, a member of staff told me I need to top up, i then topped up a minor amount about £3.00 but it was on negative before and now went to positive and my oyster was declined once again. The staff member asked me if my oyster was on negative, and it wasnít so itís what i told him. The staff member kindly just let me through the barriers via his pass and then these inspectors on the train came from nowhere .

    The inspector just wasnít listening to my side of the argument, so i couldnít be bothered wasting energy on him. Anyways this is what i wrote in the appeal that got rejected:

    Hello

    Please accept this email as an appeal to the penalty charge notice. I was travelling from London Liverpool street station to Ilford station. Having forgotten that my oyster was from zone 2-4 and Liverpool street was within zone 1, I tapped out my oyster in Liverpool street and to my surprise the oyster was not processing. I then approached a member of staff in the station, who told me that I need to top up further as Liverpool street is in Zone 1.

    As you can see from my transaction history, I topped up a minor amount (£3.00) on my oyster. I only topped up a small amount as my oyster was in between Zone 2-4 and Ilford is within the zones. I then tried to tap out of my oyster again from London Liverpool street and it seemed to have declined once again. Having explained this to the same member of staff outside of the Liverpool street station, he let me through the barriers by tapping out his card. He ought to have believed that there may have been something wrong with my oyster, so had let me through the barriers.

    For further proof of the transaction history, you can check my oyster log on the day the incident occurred (08/07/2019). Additionally, London liverpool street station are secured with cameras and security which can be further assessed by TFL if needs be.

    Kind Regards,
    This was there response:

    Thank you for your correspondence concerning the above referenced Penalty Fare Notice issued by TfL Rail on Monday 08 July 2019.
    The Appeals Service (AS) is not associated with TfL Rail. AS provide a service which gives the recipient of a Penalty Fare Notice the opportunity to dispute the issue. To ensure consistency, AS follow a Code of Practice compliant with the criteria set out in the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 when making assessments of Penalty Fare Notice appeals.
    All transport companies operating a Penalty Fare scheme display warning notices which advise transport users of their obligations and the potential consequences in failing to meet these.
    The transport user is required to show on request a valid ticket.
    When travelling beyond the validity of a travelcard using an Oyster card to Pay As You Go (PAYG), the transport user must ensure that adequate credit to cover their travel requirements is loaded to their Oyster card prior to travel.
    On assessment your appeal has been declined.
    Payment of £40.00 must be received within 14 days of the date of this letter. Full payment options and information including, what will happen if you do not pay, are detailed with this response.
    Any further correspondence in relation to Penalty Fare XR1038574 should be marked 2nd TfL Rail appeal and be received within 14 days of the above date at: Compliance, Policing & On-street Services, Transport for London, 9G4 Palestra, 197 Blackfriars Road, Southwark, London SE1 8NJ, or online at Please also ensure that you clearly state the Penalty Fare Notice number on any correspondence.
    Finally, as an appeals service which is independent of TfL Rail we are unable to investigate complaints concerning TfL Rail service or staff conduct. Please therefore contact TfL Rail direct with your requests and concerns.
    Yours sincerely
    I want to fight this, because i just donít think itís fair
Page 1
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 15th Aug 19, 3:21 PM
    • 35,393 Posts
    • 41,484 Thanks
    Browntoa
    • #2
    • 15th Aug 19, 3:21 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Aug 19, 3:21 PM
    Your fault. Not a valid ticket for zone 1.

    Would have been easier to tap your contactless card for the journey
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • BlueWagon
    • By BlueWagon 15th Aug 19, 3:27 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BlueWagon
    • #3
    • 15th Aug 19, 3:27 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Aug 19, 3:27 PM
    But i topped up as well for zone 1
    • daveyjp
    • By daveyjp 15th Aug 19, 5:10 PM
    • 8,211 Posts
    • 6,798 Thanks
    daveyjp
    • #4
    • 15th Aug 19, 5:10 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Aug 19, 5:10 PM
    Railforums.co.uk is where you need to be for this type of query.
    • stragglebod
    • By stragglebod 15th Aug 19, 8:14 PM
    • 696 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    stragglebod
    • #5
    • 15th Aug 19, 8:14 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Aug 19, 8:14 PM
    But i topped up as well for zone 1
    Originally posted by BlueWagon
    After you started your journey.
    • Gravedigger
    • By Gravedigger 16th Aug 19, 12:08 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 74 Thanks
    Gravedigger
    • #6
    • 16th Aug 19, 12:08 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Aug 19, 12:08 PM
    How did you manage to tap-in at Liverpool Street?
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 16th Aug 19, 1:18 PM
    • 1,426 Posts
    • 2,356 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    • #7
    • 16th Aug 19, 1:18 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Aug 19, 1:18 PM
    Something fishy here!

    Are you giving ALL the info/being truthful?
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 16th Aug 19, 1:55 PM
    • 2,868 Posts
    • 14,406 Thanks
    NBLondon
    • #8
    • 16th Aug 19, 1:55 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Aug 19, 1:55 PM
    How did you get to Liverpool Street? You said you tapped out - suggesting that you were completing a journey and that journey took you into the negative. You then topped up putting you slightly positive but possibly that wasn't enough for the journey just completed. So at the second attempt when you were let through the barriers - you hadn't actually tapped in to start that journey (back to Ilford?) and that's what the inspector detected.

    Maybe the gate operator at Liverpool Street made a mistake or misunderstood you but either way you made 2 journeys in Zone 1 and both of those are extra to your Zone 2-4 card.
    "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
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