Lloyds TSB and Data Protection
Comments
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In a nutshell, my father had a standing order setup in March 2011 with Lloyds, paying a local council. He'd been paying the same amount even til this day. However, for some bizarre reason, the payment reference was taken off around Aug 2011 by the bank so council could not allocate those payments to my father's CTAX account. As a result, he was issued a CCJ against him by council.
Even if the payment had been allocated correctly he'd presumably have been in arrears quite some time ago unless his council didn't raise council tax rates between 2012 and 2018.0 -
Guys - forgive me - I had a typo in there.
Just to be clear of the timeline:
March 2011 - SO set up for £88.96 with payment reference
Aug 2016 to Dec 2016 - SO was amended to have no payment reference
Jan 2017 to Jun 2017 - SO amended to have payment reference
Aug 2017 to Dec 2017 - SO amended to have no payment reference.
The question is: why on earth would my dad go into the bank to put a reference in March 2011, to go in Aug 2016 to take it off only to put it back on in Jan 2017, and then to take it off again in Aug 2017? He went to the bank early Jan 2018 and put the reference back on. I hope that adds some clarity. Sorry for the confusion.
Answer to some questions:
Has the standing order always been for the same amount or has it been varied over the years? Always for £88.96. Service Charges vary over the year, but father always covered the under payments with a cheque at the end of financial period.
What does it cover? If you mean the SO, its for the general keeping of the council flat block - there's major works being done such as lift upgrade, cleaning etc. The usual.
The payments since this issue started in Aug 2016 with no reference, were being paid to beneficiary council but it was hitting their suspense account. We just had a response from their stage 2 complaints procedure - they blatantly said to my father that they check the suspense account every day. But it was only when we queried about the CCJ, they were able to locate all 10 payments (Aug 2016 to Dec 2016 & Aug 2017 to Dec 2017) and allocate it to his Service Charges account. So they are NOT checking every day...clearly.
The main issue is that, why was this SO amended without my dad's consent? He had no reason to go and change it in any way, shape or form. And now the bank cannot provide proof that he went in to make amendments.
We are not hopeful with what FoS may decide, and this is why I was trying to angle this issue/thread in relation to Data Protection Act for my dad - we thought the bank would keep some sort of paper trail of my dads 'request' to make changes to SO. Otherwise, they could be mishandling his data. The comment I made about the issue being less than 2 years (Aug 2016 to now), we thought the bank could easily produce some documents/evidence to show father had changed his SO.
I hope that provides some clarity now. Super sorry for the error - its been amended in main post.
Let me know if you need more info or need clarification.
Jay
(to make you all smile - the solicitors council use, ofcourse sent documents to the rental property to which service charges relate to and not dad's correspondence address. This was highlighted by the council to the solicitors when my dad was raising the issue of CCJ. And when it came to applying for an order to set aside the CCJ, the solicitors were still sending the court documents to the rental property. You would think they would have learnt from their first mistake! As someone posted, you have to treat the council like they're idiots!!)0 -
1. It is unusual for council tax to be paid by standing order. We pay by direct debit as I'm sure most other people do. As the amount of council tax will vary from year to year, the amount of the standing order would have to be changed on an annual basis.
2. Why is your dad paying the council tax for a rental property and not the occupants of the property? Landlords don't usually pay council tax on behalf of their tenants! What if the tenants want to claim council tax benefit or single occupants discount or similar? What if they want their names on the council tax register? This is a very strange arrangement.
3. If letters regarding non-payment were sent to the rental property why were they not passed on by the tenants? After all your dad is paying their council tax for them!
4. Have the council not looked into this? The money must be sitting unallocated somewhere.0 -
1. It is unusual for council tax to be paid by standing order. We pay by direct debit as I'm sure most other people do. As the amount of council tax will vary from year to year, the amount of the standing order would have to be changed on an annual basis.
2. Why is your dad paying the council tax for a rental property and not the occupants of the property? Landlords don't usually pay council tax on behalf of their tenants! What if the tenants want to claim council tax benefit or single occupants discount or similar? What if they want their names on the council tax register? This is a very strange arrangement.
3. If letters regarding non-payment were sent to the rental property why were they not passed on by the tenants? After all your dad is paying their council tax for them!
4. Have the council not looked into this? The money must be sitting unallocated somewhere.
Hello Ben:
1. His council accepts SO's but they do state the amount will have to be varied. honestly, it was only since last year they changed the amounts to be higher than what they were. So this year and last year, service charges have risen because of this lift upgrade. This is why he just ends up paying the arrears at the end of the year by cheque.
2. sorry, that was my mistake AGAIN. Its not CTAX, its his service charges account. Its been amended in main post above. Sorry again. But yes, CTAX is being paid by tenants, like you.
3. So yes, not paying tenants CTAX! But he never has to go the property unless there is something major going on. The council do have the correspondence address, which was also passed onto their solicitors. Whatever happened between the, both, is their business, solicitors are not my dad's client, you know?
4. Council looked into it immediately when we brought the issue up, and were able to allocate the 10 payments in question very quickly.0 -
Hello -
I was wondering if any of the previous posters had any thoughts after I had clarified the facts of the case?
I also received FoS response in relation to my complaint, which was actual BS:
Any advice on this matter would be great.
Thanks
Jay0 -
So it is Natwest or Lloyds? Is it a massive !!!!-up by FoS or do Natwest also have something to do with it?
What is it you/your father wants from Lloyds? They have offered £500 and to cover all costs associated with the CCJ which you didn't mention earlier.0 -
So it is Natwest or Lloyds? Is it a massive !!!!-up by FoS or do Natwest also have something to do with it?
What is it you/your father wants from Lloyds? They have offered £500 and to cover all costs associated with the CCJ which you didn't mention earlier.
It has NOTHING to do with NatWest whatsoever. Nothing at all. So I do not know where that came into it.
We want more than £500 - it is not enough. As a result, he lost out buying a family home. It was only because of checking his credit file before mortgage application, he found out about the CCJ. Ofcourse, he cannot show loss because he didn't go through with the application. He didn't go through it because he didn't want another marker on his file for why he was refused the loan. Another hassle to avoid.
Honestly, do you think £500 would have been enough to cover you if you were in a similar situation? I think for my dad, its about the fact that they are trying to wash their hands off the issue without actually looking into the issue.0 -
Is this anything to do with it?
http://www.towerhamletshomes.org.uk/Leaseholders/Paying_your_invoices/Pay_your_service_charges.aspx0 -
You've said more than once that there was no reason for him to change the SO but the documentation the FOS have seen clarifies that the payee account used by the council was changed in August 2016, not just the name but the account number (and perhaps the sort code).why was this SO amended without my dad's consent? He had no reason to go and change it in any way, shape or form. And now the bank cannot provide proof that he went in to make amendments.
As someone pointed out earlier on, the bank aren't just going to change this unilaterally or at the payee's request, so I can see why the FOS have concluded that your dad instructed this (at the council's request no doubt), even if Lloyds can't prove this with paperwork. Clearly the lack of a reference when applying this update was unfortunate but that's more of a simple admin error than making the change without authorisation....0 -
.... It was only because of checking his credit file before mortgage application, he found out about the CCJ. ,,,
That would only be the case if Tower Hamlets had failed to send any demands for payment, arrears notices, letter before action, and so forth,
That's nothing to do with Lloyds, that's Tower Hamlets.....
I think for my dad, its about the fact that they are trying to wash their hands off the issue without actually looking into the issue.
Well, I've looked at the issue, and on the balance of probabilities concluded that dad forgot to add the reference to the SO when he changed it, and that dad ignored all those letters from Tower Hamlets.
You can, of course, ask the FOS to look at it again. And if that fails your dad can sue Lloyds Bank.0
This discussion has been closed.
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