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CEL POPLA appeal lost

Hi everybody, thought I’d open a post as I think I’ll be taken to court at some point soon. The operator is CEL and I’ve read that they are known to be quite litigious. I’ve read the newbies thread but unfortunately found this site too late (after both appeals). Parking was permit only in a hotel car park. I failed at appeal to the operator and to POPLA (on a technicality) and POPLA says that the operator has met keeper liability and signage requirements etc, it does seem that they have done everything by the book! I have clear evidence though that the entrance sign was completely obscured at the time of the Incident but this may be the only point I can argue. I’ve written to the manager of the hotel (on site not general manager of group) twice but to no avail. I know there’s no crystal ball but what are my chances? Is it a case of pay £100 now before the 28 days or risk £300-£400 if I lose at court. I know it MIGHT not go to court, I know that if it does they MIGHT not show up and I know you claim a 99% success rate but there’s that niggling doubt that I might be the 1% particularly if I only have one point to argue. I genuinely didn’t see the other signs as, not having seen an entrance sign, I thought that there were no parking restrictions. Was the onus on me to search out the other signs? The 28 days are up v soon. Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere but I’m getting on a bit in years and am finding navigating the site a bit difficult, there are an awful lot of posts to look through. Thanks in advance.
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Comments

  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    Is it a case of pay £100 now before the 28 days or risk £300-£400

    If you only have one ticket, if you lost the most a judge would tell you to pay would be unlikely to exceed £200, or some £50 less it no solicitor was involved, but why should you lose?

    If this was a hotel car park, you were a guest, and you failed to enter your VRN, how has this damaged them? The whole industry is a scam, and judges know it.

    It is the will of Parliament that these scammers be put out of business. Hopefully that will take place in the near future. The Bill has passed through the HOC without hitch, and goes to the Lords soon. In the meantime involve your MP, the poor dears are buckling under the weight of complaints about these scammers. Read this one which I wrote earlier

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers.

    Sir Greg Knight's Private Members Bill to curb the excesses, and perhaps close down, some of these companies passed its Third Reading in late November, and, with a fair wind, will become Law next year.

    All three readings are available to watch on the internet, (some 6-7 hours), and published in Hansard. MPs have an extremely low opinion of the industry. Many are complaining that they are becoming overwhelmed by complaints from members of the public. Add to their burden, complain in the most robust terms about the scammers.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Thanks for that, If it's unlikely to exceed £200 I will fight it. The only thing is I wasn't a guest, I was visiting a guest, is this likely to weaken my case?
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 58,154
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    edited 13 December 2018 at 10:38PM
    I don't see why it would make any difference. Perhaps you ate or drank at the hotel. Perhaps the hotel guest payed for your food or drink.

    I would start by complaining to the hotel CEO and leaving negative feedback on the hotel website or social media such as crapadvisor.

    Please also complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
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  • So do I now write to CEL telling them I'm not paying or just ignore them. I know to ignore all debt collector letters that follow. Also does anybody know the current status on whether or not CEL follow through with court action or as others have said in the past do they still tend to drop out at the 11th hour?
  • Hi all. So I have now received an LBA from CEL. Unfortunately I was away when it arrived (bad timing as it is dated on the day I flew out) and I now have only 10 days left of the 30 days to reply. I have looked for an up to date thread on what to do but have been very confused with all the posts and links, I'm nearly 70 and my brain ain't what it used to be, sorry! I have also looked at the 'Practise direction - Pre-action conduct and protocols' too but don't really understand it. Could someone please point me in the right direction for what to do next? I can't attach an image so I will type their letter below.
    It gives my name and address and is headed 'LETTER BEFORE ACTION - CLAIM FOR DEBT' and goes on to give Vehicle reg, PCN ref, date of incident, Debt £170 and site details.
    It isn't signed at all, it just finishes with 'Yours faithfully, Legal team, Civil enforcement limited.
    The body of the letter is as below:

    Dear Sir/Madam

    We have written to you on several occasions regarding the unpaid parking charge, details of which are set out above and for which you are liable.

    This letter is being sent to you in accordance with the Pre-action Protocol for debt claims (the debt protocol) contained in the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR). In particular we refer you to paragraph 7 of the Protocol, and paragraphs 13 to 16 of the Practise Direction on Pre-action Conduct and Protocols regarding the court's power to impose sanctions for failing to comply with the provisions of the Debt Protocol.

    You should respond to this letter, enclosing a completed reply form within 30 days of the date of this letter. You can download our information sheet, reply form and financial statement (if you wish to pay in installments) at countycourtdebtclaims. Hard copies of these documents can be requested by calling us on 0333 404 5588. If you do not respond to this letter within the prescribed timeframe, we will commence proceedings (without further reference to you) to obtain a court judgement requiring you to pay the sum owing.

    If you are in financial difficulty or need debt advice, you can obtain free, impartial and non-judgemental advice from organisations such as citizens advice, step change debt charity, national debt line, advice uk and christians against poverty. Details are available on our information sheet.

    If you ignore this letter and fail to respond, proceedings will be issued against you and may increase your liability for costs.

    Yours faithfully

    Legal team
    Civil Enforcement Limited

    Many thanks in advance for any help and I promise to post the final outcome as I beleive this is something that is rarely followed through on.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,615
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    Just read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread, all about LBC stage. It's fully covered there and also leads you into what to do when you get your inevitable claim. :)
    I’ve written to the manager of the hotel (on site not general manager of group) twice but to no avail.
    Do it again now, or phone them and insist on a chat with the overall Manager. Maybe the Manager has changed, or maybe they have had so many complaints they are now actively helping victims and cancelling them before court. It will be too late if you wait till a claim has been served on you.

    And escalate the complaint to the National Chain Head Office of the Hotel Group.

    That is the ONLY way to stop this claim.

    Replying to the LBC does NOT, so you can see where your priority now lies.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Hi Coupon-mad, thank you for your prompt reply

    I will try the hotel again but the manager has not changed and on trip advisor gives the same reply to those that have been caught out "Not our problem, there are signs, we try to inform our guests but are not obliged to do so due to the signage" etc etc.
    I did also escalate to the head office but again no reply.

    Are you saying that if the hotel DOESN'T cancel the pcn it WILL end up in court?
  • waamo
    waamo Posts: 10,298
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    A letter before claim is exactly that. It's the start of the legal process and, whilst not 100% guaranteed, means a claim is on its way.
  • Ralph-y
    Ralph-y Posts: 4,563
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    just in case you are worried ...


    Have a look at this short video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n93eoaxhzpU




    Ralph:cool:
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,615
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    Jigglewits wrote: »
    Are you saying that if the hotel DOESN'T cancel the pcn it WILL end up in court?
    Yes, and as you know, we win 99% of defended cases and thoroughly enjoy them!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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