Are drivers 'at-fault' obligated to provide their dash cam?
Comments
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Ebe_Scrooge wrote: »OK - but a gun is an illegal item, so presumably there are specific laws in place to allow the police to seize it, just like drugs. But can they seize something which is not illegal to own, especially if they can't prove that you even own it ? So they come up to your car, "Excuse me Sir, do you have a dash-cam ?" . "No, officer". "Prove to me that you don't". "You prove to me that I do". "May I search your car ?". "No, not without good reason".
Dunno, I'm no expert - but it's certainly an interesting talking point
Most guns are not illegal to own, they just require a licence/permit.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0 -
A gun is not necessarily illegal.Ebe_Scrooge wrote: »OK - but a gun is an illegal item, so presumably there are specific laws in place to allow the police to seize it
And what if the murder weapon was a kitchen knife or a hammer? Or a pillow or a plastic bag?
The seizure is not because the weapon or other item of evidence is somehow inherently illegal, but because it's suspected of being used in the commission of a serious crime. What crime has been committed here? Perhaps careless driving. Are the police charging anybody? If not, then the police's involvement is limited to ensuring traffic gets moving again as quickly as possible - they have zero involvement in the insurance claim.0 -
I'm an accredited police station representative.
I would try to argue there is no right to enter the vehicle to seize the dashcam in a run of the mill RTC (careless driving).
If an indictable offence has been committed, the police can enter premises to arrest (s17 PACE). Premises includes a vehicle (s23 PACE).
If a police officer is lawfully on premises, they can seize any evidence relating to an offence (s19 PACE).
It is always legal to search premises with the owner's consent - a specific statutory power is not needed, so if you let a copper into your vehicle they are lawfully there and can seize evidence.
There are some aspects of the Road Traffic Act which might help them as well.
s6(1) Road Traffic Act 1988:
If any of subsections (2) to (5) applies a constable may require a person to co-operate with any one or more preliminary tests administered to the person by that constable or another constable.
s6(5) Road Traffic Act 1988:
(5)
This subsection applies if—
(a)
an accident occurs owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, and
(b)
a constable reasonably believes that the person was driving, attempting to drive or in charge of the vehicle at the time of the accident.
s6E:
6E
Power of entry
(1)
A constable may enter any place (using reasonable force if necessary) for the purpose of—
(a)
imposing a requirement by virtue of section 6(5) following an accident in a case where the constable reasonably suspects that the accident involved injury of any person, or
(b)
arresting a person under section 6D following an accident in a case where the constable reasonably suspects that the accident involved injury of any person.
So if you've been involved in an accident involving injury to a person, a police officer can enter your vehicle to administer a preliminary breath test (combination of s6(1), (5) and s6E(1)(a)). Once they have lawfully entered, they can seize the dashcam footage.
Finally, police regularly exceed their powers in this country but the courts are not forced to exclude evidence obtained in breach of powers. They will only exclude it if to include the evidence would have such an adverse effect on the fairness of proceedings that the court ought not to admit it: s78 PACE.
So even if a police officer took your dashcam without lawful authority the court would not necessarily prevent it being used in evidence!What will your verse be?
R.I.P Robin Williams.0 -
I'm an accredited police station representative.
I would try to argue there is no right to enter the vehicle to seize the dashcam in a run of the mill RTC (careless driving).
If an indictable offence has been committed, the police can enter premises to arrest (s17 PACE). Premises includes a vehicle (s23 PACE).
If a police officer is lawfully on premises, they can seize any evidence relating to an offence (s19 PACE).
It is always legal to search premises with the owner's consent - a specific statutory power is not needed, so if you let a copper into your vehicle they are lawfully there and can seize evidence.
There are some aspects of the Road Traffic Act which might help them as well.
s6(1) Road Traffic Act 1988:
If any of subsections (2) to (5) applies a constable may require a person to co-operate with any one or more preliminary tests administered to the person by that constable or another constable.
s6(5) Road Traffic Act 1988:
(5)
This subsection applies if—
(a)
an accident occurs owing to the presence of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place, and
(b)
a constable reasonably believes that the person was driving, attempting to drive or in charge of the vehicle at the time of the accident.
s6E:
6E
Power of entry
(1)
A constable may enter any place (using reasonable force if necessary) for the purpose of—
(a)
imposing a requirement by virtue of section 6(5) following an accident in a case where the constable reasonably suspects that the accident involved injury of any person, or
(b)
arresting a person under section 6D following an accident in a case where the constable reasonably suspects that the accident involved injury of any person.
So if you've been involved in an accident involving injury to a person, a police officer can enter your vehicle to administer a preliminary breath test (combination of s6(1), (5) and s6E(1)(a)). Once they have lawfully entered, they can seize the dashcam footage.
Finally, police regularly exceed their powers in this country but the courts are not forced to exclude evidence obtained in breach of powers. They will only exclude it if to include the evidence would have such an adverse effect on the fairness of proceedings that the court ought not to admit it: s78 PACE.
So even if a police officer took your dashcam without lawful authority the court would not necessarily prevent it being used in evidence!
Because every driver is sat in their vehicle waiting for the police to arrive. :rotfl:0 -
Presumably if police could seize footage then cameras would be designed to encrypt data to prevent third party viewing.0
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Just thinking actually. s23 PACE defines premises as "any place" and specifically mentions it included a vehicle.
A public highway is a "place" which they are lawfully on. So if you didn't hand over your dashcam, they could arguably seize your vehicle and everything in it as it contains evidence...What will your verse be?
R.I.P Robin Williams.0 -
Concealment of information or evidence is a criminal act known as Perverting The Course of Justice.0
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GothicStirling wrote: »Concealment of information or evidence is a criminal act known as Perverting The Course of Justice.
And far more serious than careless driving! PCOJ usually always results in an immediate custodial sentence.What will your verse be?
R.I.P Robin Williams.0 -
Yes you can have a copy of the footage but you must pay the costs to have it transferred onto DVD's. Its a 64GB card and its full
£10 ph and my computer is really slow and it doesnt have a DVD drive so i will add one of those to the invoice. Estimated 40 hours to complete it + postage of course.
Do you still want a copy?Censorship Reigns Supreme in Troll City...0 -
"Evidence" for what charge?GothicStirling wrote: »Concealment of information or evidence is a criminal act known as Perverting The Course of Justice.0
This discussion has been closed.
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