Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

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  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464
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    edited 24 August 2012 at 7:57PM
    rachieb77 wrote: »
    Hello everyone! I'm new to this thread and a complete LPG novice!

    Welcome. You've probably found the right place!
    rachieb77 wrote: »
    After reading lots of the useful info on this thread, I feel like I know a lot more than when I first started looking!

    And thank you :-)
    rachieb77 wrote: »
    We are purchasing a property which has an above-ground LPG tank in the garden. The current supplier is Countrywide.

    The purchase is due to complete in about 2 weeks.

    The first thing I would suggest is that you find out BEFORE you complete, whether the existing tank is compliant with the current UKLPG codes of practice. If it is not you might have a devil of a job getting anyone other than the existing supplier to offer a supply contract and the existing supplier will know that very well and the price they quote is likely to reflect the fact that they know you will not get any other supplier to deliver.

    My advice would be to have a word with your solicitors then contact one of the suppliers, explain the situation to them and ask them to undertake a site survey as a matter of urgency to confirm whether they would be able to supply or whether any remedial work or tank re-siting would be required. For this purpose, I would suggest that you contact Calor in the first instance (as they seem to be fussier than most about tank siting). If they are happy with things as they are, all well and good; If not, you need to speak to the Vendors and ask them to make a consideration for the remedial work, which in the worst case could be very expensive and disruptive.

    As far as ongoing supply is concerned, do not feel beholden to any supplier, even if they were the ones who may have "kindly" carried out a survey for you. Remember, it's an open market and they all know that, even the smaller ones.

    The first thing that you will need to know when looking for a quote is the approximate annual usage, as this will significantly affect (i.e. 10%-15%, perhaps more) any price that you will be quoted. Get your solicitors to obtain this from the Vendors (and also what they are currently paying for LPG in pence per litre and also what standing charge they are paying) and and insist on documentary evidence. Many supply contracts contain a clause that allows the supplier to amend (i.e. increase) the price they charge if they feel you have significantly misled them over expected consumption (although if you use MORE than you expect to, do not expect the supplier to magically drop their price!)

    Once you have got that information, you are in a position to ring /email round to see what offers you can get. You certainly seem to have a good selection of possible suppliers, which is excellent news. There are also others who will service your area (e.g. ExtraGas) who are not members of UKLPG and who therefore will not appear in your current list.

    You specifically need to ask them for:
    • A firm offer price per litre;
    • Details of any permitted price caps or exit clauses;
    • A copy of the contract (and a magnifying glass)
    • Standing charges
    • Details of any incentives of offers they might have
    Remember, your contract is exclusive and lasts for two years, so don't be wooed into signing an unreasonably pricey contract by the offer of a few quid bunged in your hand now - sit down and work out the likely total costs over the life of the contract.

    As far as potential suppliers go, the concensus (on this forum anyway) seems to be that the smaller independent suppliers generally offer better service and pricing over the full term of a contract than any of the "Major" suppliers (Calor, Avanti and Flogas). And of the three major suppliers, Flogas have something of a very poor reputation for charging outrageously high prices (plenty of examples in this thread and more generally online) and taking a "pay up or freeze" attitude, especially towards the end of any contract period!

    Unless you are an especially low-volume user, you should probably expect to get a contract with a price somewhere in the 42-45ppl (+ VAT @ 5%) range just now, but see the posts made earlier today for the warning that Calor may be about to push their prices up by 3.5ppl. Others will probably follow (whether justified or not!) so now is actually a very good time to negotiate and fix a new supply contract.

    There are plenty of other posts that you will find useful on here, so read all you can. For starters, you might want to have a look at the (for want of a better term) "LPG Beginners Guide" that I posted a while back, and also some comments that I posted for another new user. To find out what (if anything) people are saying about specific independent suppliers, the "Search this thread" option is very helpful.

    Good luck and Caveat Emptor!
  • HateLPG
    HateLPG Posts: 464
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    I'm up in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland area - and I have just been quoted 58.75p per litre:eek: anyone know of any cheaper suppliers to this area? - this means Im going to have to pay over £1,000 to fill a tank.

    Depending on exactly where you are, other than the obvious Major suppliers and JGas (as mentioned by ), you might also want to try one or all of the following:

    I can't vouch for any of these as suppliers, all I can say is that they do operate in the right general area.


    Good luck!
  • As of 26/8/12 my LPG contract ended :j
    What now...? Time to start organising tank removal me thinks :D

    Still got a fair bit of gas in it tho :(
  • drfrot
    drfrot Posts: 16
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    All I can suggest is that you contact Cardiff Gas and see if they want to chase up what you haven't been able to - on the off-chance of getting a contract. Cardiff Gas seem very pleasant over the phone (but then most suppliers are!) BUT drfrot has become a customer of theirs and speaks very highly of them

    For good reason - they are a 'normal' company, who are a pleasure to deal with. I've been with a number of other suppliers before and the experience is like dealing with an entirely different species.

    I've said it all before in previous posts, but will reiterate that if Cardiff Gas appear on your list of potential suppliers, you should grab that opportunity with both hands!

    (Even taking my subjective opinion of the company themselves out of the equation - their prices follow the wholesale price, and they don't tie you to a contract... what are you waiting for?!)

    BTW, I'm a landlord myself, and it's my understanding that the landlord can't stop you from swapping supplier. It's just common courtesy to let them know if you do (none of my tenants have ever bothered)!

    G
  • drfrot
    drfrot Posts: 16
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    rachieb77 wrote: »
    The current supplier is Countrywide.

    ...

    I've looked on the LPGUK website to see who delivers in our area. Potential suppliers are: Avanti, Flogas, Callow Gas, Lister Gases, Cardiff Gas, Calor Gas and Carver Gases.

    If you've read this thread from top to bottom, not only do you deserve some sort of badge, but you'll also have seen from previous posts that Countrywide prices tend to simply go up and up and up (and they don't offer a standard price for everyone - they'll squeeze each individual for as much as they can get away with).

    Without wishing to sound like a stuck record, as I say above - if you are lucky to live within range of Cardiff Gas, then you've hit the jackpot.

    That is all.

    :)
  • bry54
    bry54 Posts: 46
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    drfrot wrote: »
    If you've read this thread from top to bottom, not only do you deserve some sort of badge, but you'll also have seen from previous posts that Countrywide prices tend to simply go up and up and up (and they don't offer a standard price for everyone - they'll squeeze each individual for as much as they can get away with).

    Without wishing to sound like a stuck record, as I say above - if you are lucky to live within range of Cardiff Gas, then you've hit the jackpot.

    That is all.

    :)

    We were with Countrywide ,we're small users about 1000L p.a.but only live 4 miles from their delivery depot. They wanted to charge us 63p a litre.
  • tonyholwell
    tonyholwell Posts: 2 Newbie
    edited 28 August 2012 at 9:42AM
    Hi,
    I have just bought a house which has a bulk LPG tank (with BP I beleive) but I probably don't want to keep it, partly the apparent cost and I'd need to move the tank since it is where I want to build an extension!.
    Can i just get BP to come and take the tank away (at their cost) and what happens to the remaining gas?
    Thanks
    Tony
  • HateLPG - you are amazing! Thank you so much for your post, it would have taken me forever to source the information and advice you have given. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.
  • rachieb77
    rachieb77 Posts: 24
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    Just a quickie further to my above post. Cardiff Gas have got back to me this afternoon and they do deliver LPG in our area, woo hoo!

    They are offering the following:

    Our price this month is 43p per litre plus 5% VAT and rental at 20p per day plus 5% VAT. The price is subject to change monthly and is updated on our “Latest Prices” blog page (http://cardiffgas.wordpress.com/about/).

    We do not request you sign a contract – if you are unhappy with the price or service you just switch to another company undergoing the same procedure.

    Seems good from what I have read on here - am I right in thinking that I should snap their hand off?!
  • LittleVermin
    LittleVermin Posts: 737
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    edited 29 August 2012 at 6:36PM
    rachieb77 wrote: »
    Just a quickie further to my above post. Cardiff Gas have got back to me this afternoon and they do deliver LPG in our area, woo hoo!

    They are offering the following:

    Our price this month is 43p per litre plus 5% VAT and rental at 20p per day plus 5% VAT. The price is subject to change monthly and is updated on our “Latest Prices” blog page (http://cardiffgas.wordpress.com/about/).

    We do not request you sign a contract – if you are unhappy with the price or service you just switch to another company undergoing the same procedure.

    Seems good from what I have read on here - am I right in thinking that I should snap their hand off?!

    Seems good! Of course you have to choose whether to go for 1) the wholesale rate plus mark-up which varies each month (from Cardiff Gas, etc) or 2) a more stable price from a major (that's what the majors told the OFT - see the Off-grid Energy Report here, section 5.55). The majors hedge, and Calor has a massive storage cavern under South Humberside (jointly owned with Conoco - see here). But VERY few posts on this forum (fingers of one hand, after amputations?) speak of price falls from majors.....so the benefits of the hedging and the massive cavern seem to flow to the shareholders rather than the customers! The wholesale price has been all over the place the last 3 years, apparently because commodity traders have moved in.

    An option would be to buy the tank yourself - or buy a new tank - since you've got at least 8 possible suppliers. Cardiff Gas have a lower (but unspecified) price for tank owners, while Extra Fuel (who have left UKLPG but would supply you) charge tank owners 5ppl less. Tank value? - see here.

    So long as you have a fill at least once a year the annual inspection is covered (your tank is above ground so no anodes to change), but you'd need to sort a 10 or 20 yr test at the appropriate time (the suppliers can give you contacts for qualified engineers). So I'd check the age of your tank, and - as HateLPG recommends - get Calor to check it is fully compliant with the current Code of Practice (and Calor's extra requirements).

    Several people have posted about owning their tanks (see here, here, and here - though these are old posts and maybe hard to get replies). I'm sure Cardiff Gas would be helpful. As would Extra Fuel. DAVID.T (who works for an independent, I believe) posted (here) in October 2010 that a tank would cost around £1500 installed.

    Please keep us posted!
    ..
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