Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes

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  • VoucherMan
    VoucherMan Posts: 2,770
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    He did say they intend to bring back the winter/summer DD rates and the memberships fees when they've worked out how.


    I think the problem is a big how. They weren't basing it on usage, but on estimated usage, using industry supplied figures. Probably not an issue for most, but for people such as myself, who have been placed in a higher membership band due to higher historical usage, and new builds with no usage history, the current system will remain contentious.
    Before anyone says that OFTM have done away with membership fees, that doesn't apply to everyone. Some of us are still billed using them.


    I don't see how such a system can work effectively unless monthly figures are collected automatically. (maybe once everyone has a smart meter)
    Until such time as everyone has their monthly readings submitted independently, the system is too open to abuse, by both sides. There would be little to stop customers submitting lower usage figures to keep them in a lower band. They could then 'up the reading' on a later month when actual usage had been lower.
    By the same reasoning, there's nothing in my opinion to stop the supplier over estimating a customer's usage just to keep them in a higher price band. Something I suspect OFTM may be doing. This is based mostly on the fact that since I joined, their 'estimate' of my usage has generally been more than 20% higher than actual usage. This includes monthly estimates where I may use 6kWh daily, averaged over the month, but for the two days from me supplying a reading to them producing a bill, they increase their estimate to 8kWh per day.
    Even then the system will only be fair if they start basing the fees on actual usage. If they can still use estimates, they can still overcharge.
  • Has anyone who has switched received acknowledgement from Outfox? I switched to Bristol and they report that they've been supplying me since approx the 24th December (no objection from Outfox, online account working, first meter reading received, etc). I've heard nothing at all from Outfox and there's nothing on the hub. Is this level of radio silence normal? Everyone else I've switched from sent me an email or letter to say they'd be making arrangements to close my account down.

    And Anthorn, you can rofl on my behalf all you like...as a very low user, they put my annual energy costs up by 40% when they brought in the standing charge, so I'm saving a lot of money by switching. No regrets here!
  • techno12
    techno12 Posts: 720
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    edited 13 January 2019 at 6:14AM
    Nope, I've heard nothing from Outfox confirming that I've left since I switched away (completed on 5th Jan).

    I did email them after I'd reversed the direct debit, and got a reply the next day...

    "Your new supplier will send us your readings once you have switched away. On the way, the readings go through the electricity and gas industries to be validated. Your old supplier can take up to 8 weeks to produce their final bill, if you haven’t received it after this time, please get in touch. Once the final bill has been produced we will then refund any credit on the account."

    A little strange, as Outfox are the 'old supplier', and I've already switched away.

    I also received 2 automated mails asking about the direct debit reversal and cancellation (I didn't cancel it with the bank, just set a direct debit indemnity on January's payment as I've left and thus I'm being billed twice, both by Outfox and my new supplier).

    No idea what's going on!
  • megafern
    megafern Posts: 18
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    edited 13 January 2019 at 10:02AM
    In response to the critiscism levelled at people, and I am one, who left OFTM immediatley, I personally do not give any service provider a second chance if they abuse my loyalty. e.g massive insurance renewal hikes, Direct Debit ncreases etc. I do not challenge them or belittle myself by trying to negotiate. I simply leave. Incidently, Bristol Energy are cheaper for me than OFTM. Furthermore, I left OFTM on 4th Dec with a 36p debt. 2 weeks later they took an increased DD of over £90. I am still waiting for it to be returned. I would like to see the Luddites defence of that sharp practice.
  • megafern wrote: »
    In response to the critiscism levelled at people, and I am one, who left OFTM immediatley, I personally do not give any service provider a second chance if they abuse my loyalty. e.g massive insurance renewal hikes, Direct Debit ncreases etc. I do not challenge them or belittle myself by trying to negotiate. I simply leave. Incidently, Bristol Energy are cheaper for me than OFTM. Furthermore, I left OFTM on 4th Dec with a 36p debt. 2 weeks later they took an increased DD of over £90. I am still waiting for it to be returned. I would like to see the Luddites defence of that sharp practice.


    I cannot understand why you have not reversed the payment.



    That is exactly what happened to me (except it was nearer £200 when I owe perhaps £10 to £20) and I reversed it so that I am, firstly, in control of the situation and, secondly, OFTM don't have my cash to prop themselves up.



    I suspect that, if you do not do this, you will be waiting for a couple of months for a refund.
  • wavelets
    wavelets Posts: 1,164
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    megafern wrote: »
    In response to the critiscism levelled at people, and I am one, who left OFTM immediatley, I personally do not give any service provider a second chance if they abuse my loyalty. e.g massive insurance renewal hikes, Direct Debit ncreases etc. I do not challenge them or belittle myself by trying to negotiate. I simply leave. Incidently, Bristol Energy are cheaper for me than OFTM. Furthermore, I left OFTM on 4th Dec with a 36p debt. 2 weeks later they took an increased DD of over £90. I am still waiting for it to be returned. I would like to see the Luddites defence of that sharp practice.

    I'm not sure I'm a luddite - I think you may have mispoken there ;)

    If you have a final bill showimg you owe 36p, then it will also include the £90 credit.

    If you've not yet received a final bill, then the supplier hasn't yet worked out your final balance.
  • wavelets
    wavelets Posts: 1,164
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    edited 13 January 2019 at 12:41PM
    Steve456 wrote: »
    I cannot understand why you have not reversed the payment.



    That is exactly what happened to me (except it was nearer £200 when I owe perhaps £10 to £20) and I reversed it so that I am, firstly, in control of the situation and, secondly, OFTM don't have my cash to prop themselves up.



    I suspect that, if you do not do this, you will be waiting for a couple of months for a refund.

    Probably because the poster doesn't want to be hit with a £25 additional charge for a missed/late payment ;)

    You'll have to re-set up a DDI as that appears to be the only acceptable method of paying the supplier according to their terms - terms you agreed to abide by when you agreed to be supplied by the supplier.
  • Steve456
    Steve456 Posts: 58
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    wavelets wrote: »
    I'm not sure I'm a luddite - I think you may have mispoken there ;)

    If you have a final bill showimg you owe 36p, then it will also include the £90 credit.

    If you've not yet received a final bill, then the supplier hasn't yet worked out your final balance.


    And, although they haven't yet worked out your final balance (reasonable enough) they still took a payment for energy consumption IN ADVANCE while knowing full well they were not going to supply that energy! Tantamount to fraud in my opinion.
  • wavelets
    wavelets Posts: 1,164
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    Steve456 wrote: »
    ... Tantamount to fraud in my opinion.

    Well if that is YOUR opinion, fine:)

    If you are that concerned you can report suspected fraud here:
    https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

    But I don't agree there is any suggestion of fraud as there appears to be no evidence of anyone attempting to gain a dishonest financial advantage.
    - all financial transactions will be fully accounted for.
  • Steve456
    Steve456 Posts: 58
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    wavelets wrote: »
    Well if that is YOUR opinion, fine:)

    If you are that concerned you can report suspected fraud here:
    https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

    But I don't agree there is any suggestion of fraud as there appears to be no evidence of anyone attempting to gain a dishonest financial advantage.
    - all financial transactions will be fully accounted for.


    The energy company is advised of a move to another supplier, and in the "good old days" when they billed you in arrears, would be quite OK to take a direct debit after the move as you would almost certainly be owing them money.

    With OFTM, and quite a few others now, they bill in advance. Therefore, what possible reason would they have to take money by means of a direct debit to which they KNOW that they are not entitled?

    Unless, of course, they argue that their system is so poor that they don't know whether they are billing in advance or in arrears as they cannot track or estimate usage accurately (despite their customers providing "actual" readings every month)?
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