Massive Secret Train fare Increase by South Eastern Rail?

robwhite44 · 3 May 2019 at 10:58AM

Yesterday the fare on my regular off-peak train journey was trebled by South Eastern Rail.
South Eastern defines an Off-peak train as one which arrives in London after 10 am. (link provided])
All London-bound trains from Otford in Kent departing after 0915 arrive at 1000 or later and therefore qualify as Off-Peak.
This means that with my Senior Rail Pass my 12 minute journey to Swanley used to cost me £3.35.
Yesterday unilaterally and without warning these trains were reclassified by South Eastern and in defiance of their own definition, as Peak trains
My ticket suddenly now costs £9.40—nearly THREE TIMES as much!
Many people take advantage of the Off Peak pricing. Apart from the financial impact, the disruption which will be caused by having to delay a journey by at least 30 minutes may be drastic.
Most crazy of all---the Train Journey Planner shows that I can travel on the early train all the way to London for the Off-Peak price of £8.65---which is cheaper than my 11 minute journey to just the next station!. I could use my normal train using the full London ticket. (link provided)

Andy_L · 3 May 2019 at 11:59AM

What did they say when you contacted them?

agrinnall · 3 May 2019 at 12:25PM

Their own FAQs say that off peak is trains arriving in London after 10 a.m., so point that out to them.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/help-and-contact/help/faqs/planning-your-journey

This is their compaints procedure.

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/about-us/our-policies/complaints-handling-procedure

stragglebod · 3 May 2019 at 1:30PM

The restriction code on that ticket is that it's not valid on trains timed to depart after 04:29 and before 09:30.

Count yourself lucky that you've not previously been stopped for having an invalid ticket.

Hasbeen · 3 May 2019 at 2:25PM

robwhite44 wrote: »

Yesterday the fare on my regular off-peak train journey was trebled by South Eastern Rail.
South Eastern defines an Off-peak train as one which arrives in London after 10 am. (link provided])
All London-bound trains from Otford in Kent departing after 0915 arrive at 1000 or later and therefore qualify as Off-Peak.
This means that with my Senior Rail Pass my 12 minute journey to Swanley used to cost me £3.35.
Yesterday unilaterally and without warning these trains were reclassified by South Eastern and in defiance of their own definition, as Peak trains
My ticket suddenly now costs £9.40—nearly THREE TIMES as much!
Many people take advantage of the Off Peak pricing. Apart from the financial impact, the disruption which will be caused by having to delay a journey by at least 30 minutes may be drastic.
Most crazy of all---the Train Journey Planner shows that I can travel on the early train all the way to London for the Off-Peak price of £8.65---which is cheaper than my 11 minute journey to just the next station!. I could use my normal train using the full London ticket. (link provided)

Except they did not? Still £3:35. What if any are the restrictions on your ticket?

scones · 4 May 2019 at 10:45AM

It's a common misconception that specific trains carry blanket 'off peak' or 'peak' designations - the restrictions are much more nuanced and vary from journey to journey.

The Southeastern FAQs imply that peak fares generally apply for travel before 10am, but there will be variation on a journey by journey basis according to demand.

What is happening here is that a short hop in Kent around 9am is understandably charged as peak, in line with traditional commuting patterns.
Meanwhile, for longer distance travel to London, peak demand will be for trains that arrive by about 9.30am. As London is 45 minutes away from Otford, the 'peak' demand for travel to London is therefore probably over well before 9am and it makes commercial sense for Southeastern to allow off peak fares to start earlier for people traveling on the longer journey.

It is annoying in your case, though, of course!

robwhite44 · 5 May 2019 at 8:35AM

Thanks to everyone for comments and suggestions:
-- I haven't yet had a reply to my submission to SE RailS
-- Several months ago I was assured by the on-board guard that the 0926 was the first offpeak train
-- I understand the argument that some trains may suffer local crowding even though they arrive in London after the "peak" time. However by deciding to classify individual trains as peak presents a nightmare to both the traveller and the railway management, who surely would not be able to manage the administrative load. How would the travelling public ever know which one to use? Especially as, even now, the National Rail Journey Planner shows a different designation to the station ticket office.
-- By the way, the 0926 Orford to Swanley is usually empty!

robwhite44 · 5 May 2019 at 8:38AM

Sorry for the typo: Otford not Orford

stragglebod · 5 May 2019 at 12:08PM

There's no such thing as an off peak train.

Different tickets have different restriction codes showing on them. You go to the national rail website to look up what trains that restriction code allows you to use.

Or just use the national rail journey planner which will show you the ticket cost based on the journey you've selected.

Cornucopia · 5 May 2019 at 12:20PM

The Journey Planner indicates £4.90 as an Anytime Fare - which is presumably the OP's £3.35 before discount.

There are no peak fares shown for Otford-Swanley.

The first train available with the Senior Railcard discount is the 09:56. That fare is £3.25.

scones · 6 May 2019 at 10:05AM

robwhite44 wrote: »

Several months ago I was assured by the on-board guard that the 0926 was the first offpeak train

Yes but as advised there is no blanket off peak that applies to every journey.
For a journey to London 0926 sounds right, as the Off Peak Day Return for that journey is valid after 0859 on weekdays.
For a journey to Swanley, the Off Peak Day Return is not valid until after 0929, so cannot be valid on the 0926.
The guard was either wrong or misunderstood your destination.

robwhite44 wrote: »

...deciding to classify individual trains as peak presents a nightmare to both the traveller and the railway management ... How would the travelling public ever know which one to use?

As a couple of people have said, they do not classify individual trains as peak. They set specific restrictions for each possible journey and ticket type which define when you can travel between the two stations in question. As an extreme example, you would not be able to travel to London on the 0826 with an Off Peak ticket, but if I was using it as the first leg of the journey to Edinburgh on a through Off Peak ticket, I could. It's undeniably complex, but it's inevitable given the sheer variety of different journeys people make on the rail network needing to have appropriate restrictions applied on a case-by-case basis rather than arbitrary blanket bans.

Ticket selling websites take all the restrictions into account and will also usually show you the validity of whichever ticket you select. Nobody expects you to know the individual restrictions yourself - but if you want to check for yourself for future reference, look for the two digit restriction code printed on your ticket. For Otford to Swanley this is 'B1' and the official definition is available at https://www.nre.co.uk/B1 (newer style tickets often actually have the specific weblink printed on them).

Massive Secret Train fare Increase by South Eastern Rail?

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free