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  • FIRST POST
    MoverShaker
    Anyone else feel this way? Y Generation Living!
    • #1
    • 21st Oct 12, 4:24 PM
    Anyone else feel this way? Y Generation Living! 21st Oct 12 at 4:24 PM
    Hello there! I'm new to these forums and wanted to ask first of all - is anyone else going through what my husband and I are going through? We're both aged in our early thirties, we've not yet had children and we run our own businesses from home.

    We're renting at the moment - we have been homeowners before but ended up hating the feeling of being tied down and sold our house to escape the mortgage. Since then, we've been 'trying out' different places to live... different cities across the UK. We've sold a lot of our furniture and 'stuff' and are becoming more and more mobile. And the less stuff we have, the happier we become.

    I guess from owning a home we also realised that we didn't want to spend our lives, slaving away and paying off the mortgage, working towards a retirement that might never happen (I've had health problems). Instead, we've ditched the mortgage and other things to move towards a leaner and happier existence.

    These days, weekends aren't spent doing the garden or housework - they're spent doing social things, sports/fitness or even learning. And because our outgoings are significantly less, we can afford to eat out a lot and go on little city breaks and holidays all the time, often taking our laptops so we can carry on working.

    Even better - because we live in a city, we can walk everywhere. There's no stressful commuting. We barely use our car (which we're thinking of selling) and cycle everywhere instead. Life is good.

    What's more, because our outgoings are less - we're not stressed, don't have to work as hard and have more spare time to relax and enjoy life. You could say we're having lots of mini retirements along the way and enjoying our lives now rather than making sacrifices for later.

    The only thing that bugs us is the property issue - we think it would be sensible to buy something in the next year or so and we're considering a city centre apartment that we can rent out if we want to move in future.

    But really - I just wondered... Does anyone else feel this way or going through the same thing? I read things about the Y Generation and how this is quite common for us. It would be great to hear your thoughts.

    Thanks
    MS
Page 5
  • sinbad182
    I don't care that much - remember I wasn't the one that waded into the thread baselessly accusing someone of looking down on renters.

    That was you, and with that post you immediately made your bizarre persecution complex clear for all to see. It's very odd and you shouldn't be surprised when it's commented on.
    • TopQuark
    • By TopQuark 10th Sep 13, 11:07 AM
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    TopQuark
    You can try and make out that I'm some sort of wack-job with a lunatic agenda all you like. It won't change the prevalent UK attitude that renters are somehow inferior, sub-standard citizens to the mortgaged/home-owners.

    Which, is patently ridiculous of course and if you do happen to actually believe it, then in the inferiority complex is all yours.
    Remember Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    32 and mortgage-free
  • sinbad182
    That is a ridiculous attitude, you're right, so it's a good job barely anyone actually thinks that regardless of what you've convinced yourself.

    Seriously - get help for this complex of yours, it's not healthy.
    • TopQuark
    • By TopQuark 10th Sep 13, 11:20 AM
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    TopQuark
    They do though; ask most people who live, or have lived, in rented accommodation. Type it into Google.

    And of course all those who do think it aren't exactly going to admit to it.

    Seriously, just because you don't want to believe something, doesn't mean it isn't real. It's not healthy, perhaps you should take your own advice and get some help.
    Remember Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    32 and mortgage-free
    • Soleil lune
    • By Soleil lune 10th Sep 13, 11:22 AM
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    Soleil lune
    Apologies for not having read the the whole thread.

    But...

    I see the OP as positioning renting as a lifestyle choice (or at least the relatively flexibility that comes with it). There's nothing wrong with that as long as the consequences are understood.

    The basic maths of Renting versus Buying are pretty straightforward:-

    Renting = 60 years+ of a rent payment that increases with inflation.

    Buying = 25 years of a mortgage payment that is static with respect to inflation, then 35 years+ mortgage free, just covering property maintenance.

    Even if the mortgage payment is higher than the rent now, the maths makes it a pretty good deal. (And for some people, their rent is higher than their mortgage would be).
    Originally posted by Cornucopia
    You could also look at this another way.

    Buying

    1) 25 - 30 years or more, of paying back an astronomical loan at a price that often works out more than renting, for the privilege of having somewhere to live that you won't be booted out of with 2 month's notice.

    2) No guarantee that the house will always be yours, as you could end up in a position where you cannot pay your mortgage.

    3) Having to pay multiple 10s of 1000s over the years on maintenance and repairs; dreading the sound of the heating system popping and banging, knowing you will soon need to find 3K for a new boiler, having to get loan after loan to update the kitchen/bathroom etc, and pay multiple 1000s for roof and general house repairs.

    4) Never knowing if your monthly payment of x amount will double if the interest rates shoot up suddenly. (Remember the 1990s??? I do, and I remember dozens of people I knew, losing their homes.)

    5) If you become unable to work; not getting the mortgage payments paid, as housing benefit doesn't cover mortgage payments. And 'unemployment insurance' is not worth the paper it's written on, because even if they do decide to pay your mortgage payments, it's only usually for 12 months, so you will lose your home if you are long term sick or jobless.

    6) Potentially being stuck next to someone who is a neighbour from hell and being unable to sell up, or wanting to leave the area because work dictates it, and you can't sell.

    7) You don't 'own' the house until you have made the very last payment, and have the potential to lose it at any time.

    Renting:

    1) No repairs or maintenance: as it's all covered by the landlord,

    2) No insurances - except home contents.

    3) Not tied or trapped in one house or one area... the freedom to move around.

    4) Rent paid if you become sick or unemployed.

    5) Able to love with a month's notice, if neighbours from hell move in.

    6) Also, many landlords do let you put pictures and photos up and generally don't mind you making the house your own, within reason, as long as you look after the house. Also, many landlords offer long-term tenancies. Yes, the rent is not as cheap as social housing, but it's very unlikely that any mortgage payment in this day and age, would be less per month than private let.

    I think that advantages of renting far outweigh the advantages of buying. Certainly if you're in social housing.

    If people do want to buy, then that's up to them, but the long term cost of repairs and maintenance is quite phenomenal. I have lost count of the amount of properties that I have seen that have badly let go, because the person buying the property cannot afford to maintain it, especially people who bought on the right-to-buy and naively thought that a) the council would still do the repairs or b) repairs could be done themselves or it was lot cheaper than they thought for a contractor to do it. Many things have to be done professionally anyway, or you can invalidate your home insurance.

    Regarding older folk selling their property and wanting a social housing bungalow. I do not have an issue with this, if they desperately need a bungalow. I do take umbrage though, to someone saying they plan to sell 'all their housing stock,' and spend the money as frivolously as they possibly can, and do not intend to declare the money they have frittered away to the social housing landlord. If someone has a number of properties they can sell, then why not sell them and buy a bungalow.

    Someone who has multiple properties that they are going to make a fortune from, should not -in my opinion - be entitled to social housing. Indeed, someone who has made a lot of money from just one property, should not be entitled to social housing. (By a lot of money: I mean enough to purchase the type of bungalow they want outright.) If they have made a lot of money from several properties, (or one,) then - IMO - they should buy a bungalow and put some of the profit they intend to 'spend as quickly as they can' away for repairs and maintenance.

    I literally don't think any different of anyone who is buying or renting: nobody is better or worse than anyone else, but there was a lot of snobbish attitudes a few years ago, from people who were buying their homes, towards people who rent, like they were somehow better because they were a 'homeowner.' Not so sure it is the same now, but it was in the 1990s. And the look of dismay on my cousins's face back in the late 90s, when a housing association built 23 social housing homes, 5 minutes walk from her 'big executive house.' was hilarious. 'I bought in the cul-de-sac, to get AWAY from people like that!' she said. I know that not everyone who is buying looks down on people who rent, but I have seen more snobbish attitudes from people buying aimed at renters, than I have 'bad attitudes' from renters towards people buying.

    P.s. I don't have a chip on my shoulder, I promise! I have both rented privately, been a 'homeowner,' AND rented from social housing, so I see it from all sides.

    As someone said earlier, 'horses for courses' and it would be a sad world if we were all the same, wouldn't it? :P
    Last edited by Soleil lune; 10-09-2013 at 11:29 AM.
    • Tiglath
    • By Tiglath 10th Sep 13, 11:25 AM
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    Tiglath
    I've rented in the past, but my own choice will always be to own a property. I look forward to the day when we've paid off the mortgage and no longer have huge amounts going each month; the current location suits us as I work in the City, and there's no way I'd want to be paying housing costs once I retire. To rent our current house would cost approx 400/month more than our mortgage, and it could be whipped out from under our feet at the whim of a landlord. I imagine we'll move once I decide to do something different. Of the people I work with, I'd say roughly 30% rent as opposed to buy, but there's no judgement made - it's their choice.
    "Save 12k in 2019" #120 - 86,436.67/100k
    • Soleil lune
    • By Soleil lune 10th Sep 13, 11:37 AM
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    Soleil lune
    I've rented in the past, but my own choice will always be to own a property. I look forward to the day when we've paid off the mortgage and no longer have huge amounts going each month; the current location suits us as I work in the City, and there's no way I'd want to be paying housing costs once I retire. To rent our current house would cost approx 400/month more than our mortgage, and it could be whipped out from under our feet at the whim of a landlord. I imagine we'll move once I decide to do something different. Of the people I work with, I'd say roughly 30% rent as opposed to buy, but there's no judgement made - it's their choice.
    Originally posted by Tiglath
    Like I said Tiglath, horses for courses. And good luck, and I wish you well ... I know several people - over 50 mostly who are mortgage free and have plenty of dosh, after years of hard work, who wouldn't want anything else other than to be a homeowner. I think many people over 55/60 would prefer it.

    But as I said, in this day and age, buying is not necessarily better, because of the high house prices, the high repair bills and the fact that many people under 50 - ie; from generation X (and generation Y (the millenials) are not very well off. So struggle from week to week with basic living, and don't want high repair bills on top of everything else.
    Last edited by Soleil lune; 10-09-2013 at 11:41 AM.
    • Ronaldo Mconaldo
    • By Ronaldo Mconaldo 10th Sep 13, 11:40 AM
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    Ronaldo Mconaldo
    I think that advantages of renting far outweigh the advantages of buying. Certainly if you're in social housing.
    So the advantages of sitting on your backside and letting the tax payer fund your entire life outway the benefits of having the ambition and dignity to stand on your own two feet and try to make it on your own. Who'd have thunk it?
  • sinbad182
    They do though; ask most people who live, or have lived, in rented accommodation. Type it into Google.

    And of course all those who do think it aren't exactly going to admit to it.

    Seriously, just because you don't want to believe something, doesn't mean it isn't real. It's not healthy, perhaps you should take your own advice and get some help.
    Originally posted by TopQuark
    And by the same course, just because you repeatedly claim something is happening and invent stories to back up an imaginary national agenda, it doesn't make it true.

    I rented until I was 26 by the way, and most my friends still do.

    Ill seek help when I start trying to convince myself and others that a conspiracy against people's residential status exists.
    • Soleil lune
    • By Soleil lune 10th Sep 13, 11:45 AM
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    Soleil lune
    So the advantages of sitting on your backside and letting the tax payer fund your entire life outway the benefits of having the ambition and dignity to stand on your own two feet and try to make it on your own. Who'd have thunk it?
    Originally posted by Ronaldo Mconaldo
    I didn't say anything about sitting on your backside all day, being a preferable lifestyle. You totally made that bit up.

    Plus, you appear to be saying that people who live in privately rented housing or social housing are ALL on benefits! Sitting on their backsides all day, scrounging off the state Dear me, talk about sweeping generalisations!

    You are also saying people who RENT have no ambition and dignity.

    Disgusting post. Shame on you.
    Last edited by Soleil lune; 10-09-2013 at 11:51 AM.
    • TopQuark
    • By TopQuark 10th Sep 13, 11:46 AM
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    TopQuark
    So the advantages of sitting on your backside and letting the tax payer fund your entire life outway the benefits of having the ambition and dignity to stand on your own two feet and try to make it on your own. Who'd have thunk it?
    Originally posted by Ronaldo Mconaldo
    No need to drag the royals into this!
    Remember Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    32 and mortgage-free
    • TopQuark
    • By TopQuark 10th Sep 13, 11:47 AM
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    TopQuark
    And by the same course, just because you repeatedly claim something is happening and invent stories to back up an imaginary national agenda, it doesn't make it true.

    I rented until I was 26 by the way, and most my friends still do.

    Ill seek help when I start trying to convince myself and others that a conspiracy against people's residential status exists.
    Originally posted by sinbad182
    Just face facts and get over it. You'll feel so much better when you stop pedaling against the tide!
    Last edited by TopQuark; 10-09-2013 at 11:52 AM.
    Remember Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    32 and mortgage-free
    • Tiglath
    • By Tiglath 10th Sep 13, 11:50 AM
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    Tiglath
    But as I said, in this day and age, buying is not necessarily better, because of the high house prices, the high repair bills and the fact that many people under 50 - ie; from generation X (and generation Y (the millenials) are not very well off. So struggle from week to week with basic living, and don't want high repair bills on top of everything else.
    Originally posted by Soleil lune
    Fair enough, but if I were paying 400/month extra to rent, that's money I couldn't put aside for household maintenance. I think personally I'd feel pretty insecure if I were approaching retirement age with the thought of having to pay rent out of reduced retirement income. But that's just me

    When my parents bought a house in the 1950s, everyone thought they were nuts - renting was the norm then, and it was cheaper than buying. Owning a property was drummed into me from an early age, and I bought my first flat at 25. If I were younger and wanted to be able to move around, then renting would be a reasonable option, but we're in our late forties and just don't have that lifestyle. I like knowing that no-one will turf me out of my home (assuming the mortgage continues to be paid) and that one day it will be mine Another biggie for me is pets - we have 9 cats and it would be hard to find a landlord who would take us on (although we did rent when we only had 3 cats; fortunately our landlord was a cat-person).
    "Save 12k in 2019" #120 - 86,436.67/100k
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 10th Sep 13, 11:52 AM
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    seven-day-weekend
    I will say this only once.

    I do not look down on people who rent houses, whether private or social.

    My own choice would always be to buy if I could.

    That's it.

    No agenda.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • Lord Baltimore
    • By Lord Baltimore 10th Sep 13, 11:55 AM
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    Lord Baltimore
    I'm watching you Sinbad
    • isisini
    • By isisini 10th Sep 13, 11:57 AM
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    isisini
    I rented privately for about a decade in London, and having recently bought I much prefer it. I ended up moving 9 times in eight years at one point, due to changing circumstances (housemates moving out of shared house, moving in with boyfriend, landlady moving back in and kicking us out, huge rental increases etc. etc.) If nothing else, moving all the time is so expensive and stressful. The idea of being somewhere for a long time and putting down some roots is very comforting to me. I did a lot of travelling when I was younger, and I would like to do it again (probably living abroad for a few years) if I have children, but I would want to have a base I could return to if possible. If we’re in a position do that I appreciate we’ll be very lucky.

    My experience of my fellow Generation Y-ers is that many/most of us would love to buy our own place – not because of any ‘obsession with property ownership’ but because tenants rights in the UK are so awful – if there were more long leases, more availability of social housing/rent controlled properties, more awareness of the rights that are due to tenants (and more education for landlords – particularly amateur btl landlords who often have no sense of their responsibilities towards their tenants) then renting would be a much more attractive option.
  • sinbad182
    Just face facts and get over it. You'll feel so much better when you stop pedaling against the tide!
    Originally posted by TopQuark
    You genuinely sound like David Icke now.

    Get help, please.
    • DragonQ
    • By DragonQ 10th Sep 13, 12:00 PM
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    • 699 Thanks
    DragonQ
    Renting:

    1) No repairs or maintenance: as it's all covered by the landlord,
    Originally posted by Soleil lune
    Yes this is very handy. Probably the best thing about renting. You can always get insurance if you're a homeowner though, which is essentially the same thing because you're paying x per month premium for the peace of mind of not having huge bills to worry about when things go wrong.

    2) No insurances - except home contents.
    Originally posted by Soleil lune
    True but, again, you're essentially paying for these insurances in your rent.

    3) Not tied or trapped in one house or one area... the freedom to move around.
    Originally posted by Soleil lune
    Depends what you mean by freedom. It costs a lot to move and I'm sure many renters can't afford to move every 12 months. 300+ in letting agent fees, stumping up money for deposits (it's rare for there not to be an overlap, plus you might not get your previous deposit back in full), paying for moving vans (maybe 50 plus an entire day if you're doing it yourself), possibly having to take time off work for viewings, etc. I know these costs are higher when buying but you listed it as an advantage of renting and I think it's prohibitive for most.

    4) Rent paid if you become sick or unemployed.
    Originally posted by Soleil lune
    Since when? There's a thread on here right now explaining how a tenant who is unable to work isn't being given anywhere near enough by the council to pay his rent in full.

    5) Able to love with a month's notice, if neighbours from hell move in.
    Originally posted by Soleil lune
    Only after the initial contract period, which is typically 12 months, and if your landlord is happy with a periodic tenancy. I think people tend not to do as much research in regards to the area and neighbours when renting compared to buying (speculation on my part ) so those 12 months could be a disaster.

    6) Also, many landlords do let you put pictures and photos up and generally don't mind you making the house your own, within reason, as long as you look after the house. Also, many landlords offer long-term tenancies.
    Originally posted by Soleil lune
    I dunno, I've had 4 landlords and 3 of them had clauses in the contract saying that I'd have to pay for any holes to the walls, including those caused by nails.

    Yes, the rent is not as cheap as social housing, but it's very unlikely that any mortgage payment in this day and age, would be less per month than private let.
    Originally posted by Soleil lune
    Where have you been for the past 5 years? Interest rates are rock-bottom so mortgage payments are very low right now. Renting would be more expensive in pretty much any property.

    I think that advantages of renting far outweigh the advantages of buying. Certainly if you're in social housing.
    Originally posted by Soleil lune
    Sure you would, since you only listed disadvantages of homeowning and advantages of renting!
    Last edited by DragonQ; 10-09-2013 at 12:02 PM.
  • jamie11




    Someone who has multiple properties that they are going to make a fortune from, should not -in my opinion - be entitled to social housing. Indeed, someone who has made a lot of money from just one property, should not be entitled to social housing. (By a lot of money: I mean enough to purchase the type of bungalow they want outright.) If they have made a lot of money from several properties, (or one,) then - IMO - they should buy a bungalow and put some of the profit they intend to 'spend as quickly as they can' away for repairs and maintenance.
    Originally posted by Soleil lune
    Sour grapes.

    You would have everyone believe that property owners did not have to work for it in the first place, they became well off by re-investing what they earned when they were younger instead of spending it all on high living, in other words they were responsible, that's a quality sadly lacking in much of the later generations.
    • TopQuark
    • By TopQuark 10th Sep 13, 12:08 PM
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    TopQuark
    You genuinely sound like David Icke now.

    Get help, please.
    Originally posted by sinbad182
    No need, really. Your concern is touching but it's misplaced. I'm not the one who needs it.

    Maybe you could fall down a wormhole and manage to have the last word somewhere further along the spacetime continuum where no-one is listening?
    Last edited by TopQuark; 10-09-2013 at 12:12 PM.
    Remember Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    32 and mortgage-free
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