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  • FIRST POST
    MoverShaker
    Anyone else feel this way? Y Generation Living!
    • #1
    • 21st Oct 12, 4:24 PM
    Anyone else feel this way? Y Generation Living! 21st Oct 12 at 4:24 PM
    Hello there! I'm new to these forums and wanted to ask first of all - is anyone else going through what my husband and I are going through? We're both aged in our early thirties, we've not yet had children and we run our own businesses from home.

    We're renting at the moment - we have been homeowners before but ended up hating the feeling of being tied down and sold our house to escape the mortgage. Since then, we've been 'trying out' different places to live... different cities across the UK. We've sold a lot of our furniture and 'stuff' and are becoming more and more mobile. And the less stuff we have, the happier we become.

    I guess from owning a home we also realised that we didn't want to spend our lives, slaving away and paying off the mortgage, working towards a retirement that might never happen (I've had health problems). Instead, we've ditched the mortgage and other things to move towards a leaner and happier existence.

    These days, weekends aren't spent doing the garden or housework - they're spent doing social things, sports/fitness or even learning. And because our outgoings are significantly less, we can afford to eat out a lot and go on little city breaks and holidays all the time, often taking our laptops so we can carry on working.

    Even better - because we live in a city, we can walk everywhere. There's no stressful commuting. We barely use our car (which we're thinking of selling) and cycle everywhere instead. Life is good.

    What's more, because our outgoings are less - we're not stressed, don't have to work as hard and have more spare time to relax and enjoy life. You could say we're having lots of mini retirements along the way and enjoying our lives now rather than making sacrifices for later.

    The only thing that bugs us is the property issue - we think it would be sensible to buy something in the next year or so and we're considering a city centre apartment that we can rent out if we want to move in future.

    But really - I just wondered... Does anyone else feel this way or going through the same thing? I read things about the Y Generation and how this is quite common for us. It would be great to hear your thoughts.

    Thanks
    MS
Page 4
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 10th Sep 13, 5:53 AM
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    seven-day-weekend
    I'm a different generation (one of the much maligned Baby Boomers) and would NEVER rent unless we also owned a place or it was for health reasons.

    Apart from about three years at the start of our marriage when we had a Council flat, we have never rented. Renting privately would seem to me like paying someone else's mortgage. We were not able to be flexible with working (no computers in those days!) so were fixed as regards location. Our house has been paid for since our mid-40s.

    We have helped our son with the deposit on a flat so that he doesn't have to pay someone else's mortgage. His mortgage is half as much than if he rented the same flat. He and his girlfriend are the Generation Y you refer to, don't run a car; with the small mortgage they have money to enjoy themselves in a modest way (neither of them earn much, they are a retail assistant and a kitchen assistant) and I think that arrangement works very well. No way would they want to be at the mercy of a private landlord.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by seven-day-weekend; 10-09-2013 at 5:58 AM.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • TopQuark
    • By TopQuark 10th Sep 13, 6:18 AM
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    TopQuark
    SDW, your post smacks of looking down upon those who do rent. Many people don't have a choice and don't have the bank of mum and dad to pay for a house deposit like you have done for your son. Does he have a repayment or an interest-only mortgage btw? The latter is merely renting from the bank.

    My parents are the same generation as you and could not help us out in this respect. Thus, I went to university, got several hard degrees and am now reaping the rewards - OH and are I about to by a house in France (where OH is from) outright. We are 31 and 32. It is satisfying to know that this is down to our own hard work and determination, rather than because we received handouts from our parents/others.

    We've always rented (in the UK, Philippines, Malaysia and now Switzerland) as our careers take us around the world. I don't see it as paying someone else's mortgage, I see it as putting a roof over my head whilst I live my life. And I certainly don't consider myself, or anyone else who rents their home as some kind of second class citizen, as seems to be the prevalent attitude in the UK today, sadly.
    Last edited by TopQuark; 10-09-2013 at 6:40 AM.
    Remember Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    32 and mortgage-free
    • meg00
    • By meg00 10th Sep 13, 7:09 AM
    • 168 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    meg00
    Would buying a holiday home be an option?. You could rent it out during the season (or all year if you choose the right location), and use it yourself when the fancy takes.
    PS. I love my home, 3 miles from the city, and overlooking beautiful treescapes.
    • katejo
    • By katejo 10th Sep 13, 7:29 AM
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    katejo
    SDW, your post smacks of looking down upon those who do rent. Many people don't have a choice and don't have the bank of mum and dad to pay for a house deposit like you have done for your son. Does he have a repayment or an interest-only mortgage btw? The latter is merely renting from the bank.

    My parents are the same generation as you and could not help us out in this respect. Thus, I went to university, got several hard degrees and am now reaping the rewards - OH and are I about to by a house in France (where OH is from) outright. We are 31 and 32. It is satisfying to know that this is down to our own hard work and determination, rather than because we received handouts from our parents/others.

    We've always rented (in the UK, Philippines, Malaysia and now Switzerland) as our careers take us around the world. I don't see it as paying someone else's mortgage, I see it as putting a roof over my head whilst I live my life. And I certainly don't consider myself, or anyone else who rents their home as some kind of second class citizen, as seems to be the prevalent attitude in the UK today, sadly.
    Originally posted by TopQuark
    Not sure that I agree with your criticism of SDW . It is possible to prefer ownership without looking down on those who prefer to rent or don't have the means to buy. I am also a baby boomer (just about as I was born in 1963). I bought my first place in 1993 with a bit of help from parents . I was only earning 14k then. It was the best thing for me despite being a bit tied down. If I had not bought then , I would still be renting a room in a house , not a whole flat . I live in one of the more affordable boroughs of London but rents have shot up. A flat would cost me about 75% of take home pay . When I reach retirement I will be mortgage free.
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 10th Sep 13, 7:32 AM
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    seven-day-weekend
    SDW, your post smacks of looking down upon those who do rent. Many people don't have a choice and don't have the bank of mum and dad to pay for a house deposit like you have done for your son. Does he have a repayment or an interest-only mortgage btw? The latter is merely renting from the bank.

    My parents are the same generation as you and could not help us out in this respect. Thus, I went to university, got several hard degrees and am now reaping the rewards - OH and are I about to by a house in France (where OH is from) outright. We are 31 and 32. It is satisfying to know that this is down to our own hard work and determination, rather than because we received handouts from our parents/others.

    We've always rented (in the UK, Philippines, Malaysia and now Switzerland) as our careers take us around the world. I don't see it as paying someone else's mortgage, I see it as putting a roof over my head whilst I live my life. And I certainly don't consider myself, or anyone else who rents their home as some kind of second class citizen, as seems to be the prevalent attitude in the UK today, sadly.
    Originally posted by TopQuark
    I most certainly do not look down on anyone who rents and am sorry if my post came over that way. I thought I was just contributing to the thread.

    My son has a repayment mortgage so is repaying his capital.

    May I say that your post comes over as looking down upon those who have low paid jobs. There are often reasons for this (and anyway, someone has to do them). My son and his girlfriend both have difficulties (in the girlfriend's case it is bad enough to be classed as a disability) which mitigate against them being high-flyers in employment stakes. Nevertheless, in spite of this they both have permanent jobs and claim no means-tested Benefits, when it would be very easy for them to do so.

    As for the 'handout', well that is just helping them out, all parents do so if they can.
    Last edited by seven-day-weekend; 10-09-2013 at 7:58 AM.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Sep 13, 7:34 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    I disagree, there is nothing to stop me applying for a HA property, I already have. I intend to dispose of my whole portfolio over the next 2/3 years anyway. Nobody asks how much money you have in the bank. I should have a fair bit when everything's sold and I intend to spend it, every penny if I can.
    Originally posted by jamie11
    Have you ever seen the eligibility criteria to get State money then? I'm now in the retirement agegroup and have duly retired and, any time I wonder whether I might be eligible for anything on account of my income level (ie too low to pay tax on) I find that the answer is "no" and might well remain "no" even once I reach my (revised) State Pension Age. The very first thing I notice is the comment about not being eligible if having savings of more than 16,000.

    Or are you busily making plans to find a way of hiding savings over that level so that you can live off the rest of us?

    I guess I can take it as read that you have no conscience about deliberately trying to put yourself in a position where you hope to be able to live off our backs?
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 10th Sep 13, 7:39 AM
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    seven-day-weekend
    Although having savings might disqualify you for means-tested Benefits, I don't think they disqualify you from having Social Housing. My sister and b-i-l (both now deceased) got a Council bungalow on health grounds even though they had their own paid for house, which they later sold. They just paid the rent and Council Tax themselves instead of having Benefits.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 10th Sep 13, 7:44 AM
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    moneyistooshorttomention
    Clarifying...as not had my second cup of coffee of the day yet...

    ...making it clearer....someone who occupies Social Housing unnecessarily is getting a form of "benefit" (if not in the form of cash benefit), as they will be paying less than the market rent for equivalent private sector property. Hence still "living off our backs" if they have deliberately put themselves in the position of requiring this social housing.

    I know there are some rather nice (and not that small) OAP social housing bungalows within range of my current location...that I wouldn't object to if I couldn't afford to house myself in my own home....but I acknowledge that people who actually need them would come first and there would be none left for someone just WANTING one. (...though, in fairness, I personally wouldn't live there anyway...because its obviously an Old Person Enclave and I wouldn't want that aspect).
    Last edited by moneyistooshorttomention; 10-09-2013 at 7:47 AM.
    • Cornucopia
    • By Cornucopia 10th Sep 13, 7:56 AM
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    Cornucopia
    Apologies for not having read the the whole thread.

    But...

    I see the OP as positioning renting as a lifestyle choice (or at least the relatively flexibility that comes with it). There's nothing wrong with that as long as the consequences are understood.

    The basic maths of Renting versus Buying are pretty straightforward:-

    Renting = 60 years+ of a rent payment that increases with inflation.

    Buying = 25 years of a mortgage payment that is static with respect to inflation, then 35 years+ mortgage free, just covering property maintenance.

    Even if the mortgage payment is higher than the rent now, the maths makes it a pretty good deal. (And for some people, their rent is higher than their mortgage would be).
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    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 10th Sep 13, 7:57 AM
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    seven-day-weekend
    Money, I tend to agree with you. My sister and b-i-l, although they had plenty of money, especially after selling their house, got their Council bungalow on health grounds as he had Parkinsons and she had Alzheimers. Both were in their 70s at the time.

    My b-i-l gave up the tenancy after my sister died and lived with his children (six months in the summer with his daughter and two months each with each of his sons ), so he didn't take up a tenancy someone else could have had.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • TopQuark
    • By TopQuark 10th Sep 13, 9:05 AM
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    TopQuark
    May I say that your post comes over as looking down upon those who have low paid jobs.
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    I absolutely do not. I am a working class girl from Birmingham (Erdington if you know it, since you're west midlands-based) and come from a modest family, in addition to having had a variety of low-paid jobs to put myself through university.

    What I do look down on are people who have been gifted houses/deposits by their relatives and then somehow consider themselves to be a 'cut above' me and others who rent their homes. Like home ownership is the one and only barometer of acheivement in the UK and b0ll0x to anything else.

    I've lost count of the times I've heard people say things like...'yeah, TopQuark might have a PhD but she just rents'. I remember once in the pub, we were talking to a friend of a friend about gardening, as OH is really into it. Said person replied 'but you're only renting, how can you be into gardening?', as if certain hobbies are the rarefied preserve of the mortgaged and home-owners only. So glad I have left the UK and all this kind of nonsense behind me.
    Last edited by TopQuark; 10-09-2013 at 9:11 AM.
    Remember Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    32 and mortgage-free
  • jamie11
    Have you ever seen the eligibility criteria to get State money then? I'm now in the retirement agegroup and have duly retired and, any time I wonder whether I might be eligible for anything on account of my income level (ie too low to pay tax on) I find that the answer is "no" and might well remain "no" even once I reach my (revised) State Pension Age. The very first thing I notice is the comment about not being eligible if having savings of more than 16,000.

    Or are you busily making plans to find a way of hiding savings over that level so that you can live off the rest of us?
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    What's the matter with you, where have I said I intend to claim anything from the State, I will be able to pay my way after selling up be it renting from a private housing association or possibly buying again, at the moment I think I would like to rent rather than take on another property, where's the problem?

    I strongly object to your insinuations.
  • sinbad182
    I absolutely do not. I am a working class girl from Birmingham (Erdington if you know it, since you're west midlands-based) and come from a modest family, in addition to having had a variety of low-paid jobs to put myself through university.

    What I do look down on are people who have been gifted houses/deposits by their relatives and then somehow consider themselves to be a 'cut above' me and others who rent their homes. Like home ownership is the one and only barometer of acheivement in the UK and b0ll0x to anything else.

    I've lost count of the times I've heard people say things like...'yeah, TopQuark might have a PhD but she just rents'. I remember once in the pub, we were talking to a friend of a friend about gardening, as OH is really into it. Said person replied 'but you're only renting, how can you be into gardening?', as if certain hobbies are the rarefied preserve of the mortgaged and home-owners only. So glad I have left the UK and all this kind of nonsense behind me.
    Originally posted by TopQuark


    I'd wager a good amount of money that none of those examples ever happened, and you're just making them up to somehow justify the chip on your shoulder you seem to have about people who own their house.
    • TopQuark
    • By TopQuark 10th Sep 13, 9:19 AM
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    TopQuark


    I'd wager a good amount of money that none of those examples ever happened, and you're just making them up to somehow justify the chip on your shoulder you seem to have about people who own their house.
    Originally posted by sinbad182
    Place your bet then. And I do have a chip on my shoulder; but not over people who have a mortgage/own their own house (if you read my earlier post, you'll see I'm buying my house outright), but built up over the years to snobbish attitudes like these.

    Mummy and Daddy pay your deposit did they?!!
    Last edited by TopQuark; 10-09-2013 at 9:24 AM.
    Remember Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    32 and mortgage-free
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 10th Sep 13, 9:25 AM
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    seven-day-weekend
    I absolutely do not. I am a working class girl from Birmingham (Erdington if you know it, since you're west midlands-based) and come from a modest family, in addition to having had a variety of low-paid jobs to put myself through university.

    What I do look down on are people who have been gifted houses/deposits by their relatives and then somehow consider themselves to be a 'cut above' me and others who rent their homes. Like home ownership is the one and only barometer of acheivement in the UK and b0ll0x to anything else.

    I've lost count of the times I've heard people say things like...'yeah, TopQuark might have a PhD but she just rents'. I remember once in the pub, we were talking to a friend of a friend about gardening, as OH is really into it. Said person replied 'but you're only renting, how can you be into gardening?', as if certain hobbies are the rarefied preserve of the mortgaged and home-owners only. So glad I have left the UK and all this kind of nonsense behind me.
    Originally posted by TopQuark
    But I do not do that and neither does my son. Please stop making such unfair assumptions.

    I do know Erdington, my husband's stepfather came from there. A Council house if you are interested. My husband himself came from one of the worst Council Estates in our area and I myself was brought up in a mobile home.

    We too have left the UK (Spain) but have returned voluntarily, (not forced out before you make another assumption). The money we gave our son came from the sale of that house which originally came indirectly via his grandma, so it should be his money anyway. It's just families helping each other out.

    So no silver spoon here either. Although you might need one to remove the massive chip you have on your shoulder.

    Can we play nice now please?
    Last edited by seven-day-weekend; 10-09-2013 at 9:31 AM.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
  • sinbad182
    Place your bet then. And I do have a chip on my shoulder; but not over people who have a mortgage/own their own house (if you read my earlier post, you'll see I'm buying my house outright), but built up over the years to snobbish attitudes like these.

    Mummy and Daddy pay your deposit did they?!!
    Originally posted by TopQuark
    Nope, although they helped out with a little bit of cash for costs etc when I bought my first flat.

    Would it suit your agenda better if I said they did though? Then you could add it to the list of made up stories you use to justify your bitter reverse snobbery.
    • TopQuark
    • By TopQuark 10th Sep 13, 9:37 AM
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    TopQuark
    Nope, although they helped out with a little bit of cash for costs etc when I bought my first flat.

    Would it suit your agenda better if I said they did though? Then you could add it to the list of made up stories you use to justify your bitter reverse snobbery.
    Originally posted by sinbad182
    Erm...let me think on that for a picosecond...., no - couldn't give a s**t.

    I understand that you are finding it difficult to grasp the idea that these 'stories' are actually real events that happened though. Not much I can do about that, so I won't bother, expect to say that not everyone who posts on internet forums is a troll.

    I am bitter though, yes. I find it depressing that attitudes like these exist in the UK today...it's not something I've experienced in any of the other countries I've lived in. I can't really explain it either; perhaps it's related to the UK obsession with home ownership and/or the class system, who knows. I do know that it makes me sad though.
    Last edited by TopQuark; 10-09-2013 at 10:15 AM.
    Remember Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    32 and mortgage-free
    • googler
    • By googler 10th Sep 13, 9:56 AM
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    googler
    SDW, your post smacks of looking down upon those who do rent.
    Originally posted by TopQuark
    To me, the OP smacks of looking down on anyone who doesn't run their businesses from a pair of laptops, who dares to have a car in order to go further than the centre of the city, and who has the temerity to have any hobbies or leisure interests which cause them to accumulate 'stuff' .....
  • sinbad182
    Erm...let me think on that for a picosecond...., no - couldn't give a s**t.

    I understand that you are finding it difficult to grasp the idea that these 'stories' are actually real events that happened though. Not much I can do about that, so I won't bother, expect to say that not everyone who posts on internet forums is a troll.

    I am bitter though, yes. I find it depressing that attitudes like these exist in the UK today...it's not something I've experienced in any of the other countries I've lived in. I can't really explain it either; perhaps it's related to the UK obsession with home ownership and/or the class system, who knows. I do know that it makes me sad though.
    Originally posted by TopQuark
    Why did you edit your response with added profanity and an inane smiley? Did you not feel your contribution was moronic enough already?

    These attitudes really don't exist on anywhere near the level you're making out. Even if your bizarre (and suspiciously convenient) examples of this prejudice did take place (doubtful) they'd be very much out of the ordinary incidents.

    You appear to have a massive chip on your shoulder about people owning homes who you don't feel are entitled to do so. I don't know if this is down to reverse snobbery or an inferiority complex, but it's something you should look at sorting out, as your misplaced bitterness will drive you mad.
    • TopQuark
    • By TopQuark 10th Sep 13, 10:47 AM
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    TopQuark
    I wanted to bring it down to a level you'd be more familiar with to try and help you understand.

    I do hope these attitudes don't exist widely, but I can only speak from my own experience. I have a chip on my shoulder about people having mortgages/owning homes (the 2 are not the same thing) AND looking down on those who don't. No inferiority complex, no reverse snobbery (I have more than most people). Just a profound dislike of such attitudes.

    I'm not sure why you care so much about my opinion or 'misplaced bitterness'? If it makes you feel superior to look down on others who have less, then rock on.
    Remember Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    32 and mortgage-free
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